Making training as realistic as possible

Why has nobody mentioned airsoft?

I spent most of my outings walking back to the spawn point, but it was definitely fun!

It adds an actual opponent, the element of cover/concealment and trying to get your hits on a moving target while not getting hit yourself!

If you’re thinking the guns are clunky like paintball guns you’re wrong.

Some are better than others, yes. I have a gas operated blowback action 1911 that is all metal and even field strips exactly the same as my real 1911!

That gun is what I trained my kids gun safety with, and when I handed them the real one for the first time at the range (they were 11 and 13). Both of them hit a reactive steel prairie dog target at 10 yards on the first shot!

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I picked up an airsoft copy of my EDC and was hoping my shooting bodies would do the same. Then we could have gotten some safety gear and run some scenarios. But they are slacking. I really need some new shooting buddies.

I did some paint ball battles in the forest back in high school. It was very intense and quite painful at the close distances if you didn’t utilize the cover properly. Especially since we didn’t have any safety gear aside from hardware store goggles.

Simunitions would probably be the ultimate for reality training. But I will likely have to settle for on the clock competition shooting. I think it will be a valuable skill builder as @Robert1025 pointed out. Though not the same as having painful objects flying back at you!

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If you really want to be as realistic as possible, forget airsoft toys.

You won’t be able to run this drill on US soil… but perhaps you want to go to Russia for vacation? :wink:

“Confidence Drill”:

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That is more realism than I am interested in. Though think it would be just as realistic if not more so with simunitions since you can shoot directly back at the first shooter. Not to mention a lot safer if both people are wearing full safety gear.

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Hmmmmm,… that’s a different take on Russian roulette!

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It’s not a gambling like Russian Roulette.
You train with your buddies and all partners must trust each other.

I know it’s completely different world, different mind but actually this kind of training gets results.
You don’t know how it is till the moment you are in the situation…

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I trained road dog cops and tactical cops and getting the heart rate up before shooting is an excellent idea. i used to have my guys and gals run a mile and then shoot. I have been in some high stress incidents, and the one common denominator was that my heart rate was up. Causing the HR to be up through running or other physical work simulates this. Good choice!

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Going for the head is never a good choice too small of a target and too great of a miss hitting a innocent which will land you in prison.

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IMO, all training can be useful. I say useful, as it depends on the environments that you currently frequent most so as to prioritize. If not training for situations, it’s good for muscle tone. As we get older, we still need to move or exercise those muscles! Simunitions Tng/FOF, I don’t have insurance for, so I don’t offer it.

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I mostly agree though if you hit the target several times and it keeps attacking then you need to try something else. Thus the failure to stop drill as a reaction to an attacker wearing body armor or too doped up to feel the shots to the body.

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In that case I always advocate to shoot pelvis area. Big as center mass and whenever you hit is either extremely painful or completely immobilize the threat. The result is the same - the threat is stopped but will better chance to be alive and you avoid a lot of stupid questions about headshots.

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I have read in the past that pelvis shots were supposed to be completely immobilizing but I came across a few articles last year one with info from medical professionals saying that they actually are not guaranteed to stop an attacker.

But would agree that if you know your attacker is not stopping because they are wearing body armor then the pelvis is a much better target than the head. But if they aren’t stopping because they aren’t feeling pain or you shoot them in the pelvis and they still keep shooting at you then you may have to try for the harder target.

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That is how i hold a firearm that I am ready to fire, the finger on the trigger guard is a LEO thing and I am not a LEO, by and large the departments are more concerned with liability then officers lives, which is one reason why the teach the finger on the trigger guard and are big on DA triggers.

When under stress moving the finger into the trigger guard and on to the trigger can actually result in a unintentional discharge more so with a SA trigger which is what I prefer.

And keeping the finger from the trigger guard to the trigger when under stress commonly screws up properly aiming the firearm, which is very dangerous for innocents downrange.

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Agreed. You cannot tell in 100% how the attacker reacts. There were cases where man shot over 10 times in center mass was still in attack mode. Even headshot doesn’t guarantee that threat will be stopped.

We have to be prepared for every possibilities.

My personal hit order and procedure is always the same:

  1. center mass (up to 7 shots), if this didn’t work, then
  2. pelvis (up to 5 shots), , if this didn’t work, then
  3. head (up to 3 shots) - run, reload. Cal 911.

During simulations I never had to go to #2 :wink:

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In that photo it looks like the finger is on the trigger to me not the trigger guard. Unless he intends to shoot his own foot I would say he is not ready to fire.

I can’t speak to how LEOs are trained but I was trained finger on the slide until ready to shoot. My finger doesn’t move to the trigger until I intend to pull it. It slows me down a fraction of a second but think that is the point in order to have the time to ensure you actually need to shoot.

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With some body armor the pelvis may be protected and with little time to determine that, so if a center of mass shot (which is extremely painful even with body armor on} doesn’t stop the person I would o for the center of the upper thigh and hopefully shatter a bone.

Another problem with the pelvis is there’s not a lot there to hit unless sterilization is the goal and considering what is below the belt with males there is not much there to stop a round which will endanger innocents downrange.

I have worked in a few prisons and have do desire to take up residence in one.

Literally one of the most frightening events of my life was when I was locked in a communications room of a prison and there was a shift change and I was forgotten about.

So I called 911 and tried to convince the call taker I had been locked in a communications room of a prison and they forgot to let me out, I can just imagine what the call taker was thinking, yea your locked in a prison and you want up so send a deputy out to get the door opened, yes right.

I finally talked them into believing what I was saying and a guard was sent out to check and found me locked in the room, A room which really didn’t know where it was or the room number.

But hey I got a few hours of overtime out of it and a sincere apology from the guard who told me when that had a shift change no one let the incoming shift that I was in there…

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I wouldn’t go that far with body armor. Most of civilian shooters don’t even now that pelvic armor exists.
As long as I don’t see guy dressed like this

I’m definitely use his pelvis as a potential target zone.

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Jerzees,
I knew a Guard who wore something similar to that outfit.
It really messed w/ his mobility and balance. He wasn’t paying attention one day
and as he went through the Revolving door a woman was also on the other side and she
must have been ‘Q’uicker she pushed the doors faster he bumped into the front piece of
glass spilling his coffee cup and he STOPPED! thus getting hit from behind by the following
door! and he ‘Turtled on the floor!’ He was like that old lady in the commercial
"I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!’’ well, we couldn’t get to him. so he had to strip off the armor till
he could kneel and them hoist himself to his feet. (or we had to call out to ESU ! and maybe
a St. Bernard Rescue dog w/ XXX barrel around his neck! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
We were just joking with him (not being particularly Nasty, just good natured ribbing when you screw up!
but he got all 'Karen, nancy whatever and Quit right there…Poosie… I called out to Ofc.‘Red face’ 'Don’t forget your Armor! And we all lost it! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I think he is ‘Guarding’ a Best Buy now, No danger until he walks by the Big Screen TV’s! Then WATCH-OUT! Man down! , Suspect is a (65") Vizio! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
(I wonder if he ever got a Refund on that Armor?) :smile:

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Yeah the problem with that is by the time they get close enough to put hands on you it’s almost too late, you have to have good reflexes to deal with that kind of in-your-face attack. Training to deal with it definitely helps. God knows I could use some empty-hand training myself.

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@Shamrock Scenario Training is a great idea and opens you to aspects of training you might not be aware of. While physical stress (exercise) is good, there is a big difference between physical and physiological/psychological stress. Hormones (catecholamines) that are produced affect your performance and perception differently. Tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, and memory gaps may all occur.

If you can, find some training that will incur these types of stress, and you will better understand and train through your body’s reactions.

I use “Stress Vest” in my training course CHAOS (CHAOS - Amestratus), which is similar to USCCA’s “Proving Ground.”

The more realistic the training (and types of stress) you can do, the better and stronger the benefits.

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