@Craig6 - found a Vortex scope 5 - 26 x 50 for $3400 which compared to others I look at for $1500 to $2000 more it is a deal. Vortex good, bad, indifferent ? Has the H59 reticle
1 Like
@Mike_T I like the Vortex Razor line of FFP scopes they are well built and have HUGE amounts of travel due to the main tube being 35mm. The one thing I donāt like that will affect you with an H reticle is that they ONLY make their turrets in MOA. MOA / MOA scopes are fine but when you start doing MOA / MIL you need two sets of dope cards smashed together. Great products, good folks but if they could ever get turrets in .1 Mil they would be top shelf. Disclaimer: I havenāt looked at their stuff in some time and they may have come up with MIL turrets.
āI THINKā their proprietary reticles are Horus ish but not Horus. The H reticle Iām sure will have to be custom ordered and they aināt cheap as the fella that owns Horus is proud of his stuff and to put his reticle in your scope costs the scope maker ~$400 (2009 money). It would be nice if he could find someone to make him a decent scope, thatās all Iāll say about that.
Between you me and the fence post Horus is just a Mil Rad scope reticle with the honors of being first to do something other than mil dots. There are better tools to be found. Thunder Ranch has a thing for Horus, it is what it is. Clint and Heidi are both great folks and their instructors are top shelf so you will get good training, Horus reticle or no. YOU have to decide what you want to run on your sticks.
Cheers,
Craig6
2 Likes
What is the best precision rifle manufacturer for long range chambered in 6.5CM. Willing to spend $2500. to $3000. Excluding scope. My wish was Barrett, Wilson, (totally out of my budget) Tikka and Savage more likely, however is a $1500. Tikka going to take me to 700 yards or more? Is Kimber worthy? Your thoughts.
My birthday gift come December! I will consider 30MM Leupold/Vortex/Nikon. FFP with MOA. Have not conquered the weaponizing of the math. Before I pass I want to make one cold bore shot at a mile. Last item on bucket listš¤
@Scott52 Iāll get you to a mile but that 6.5CM aināt gonna do it for you. If you want a 1 mile gun you will spend all of the $3K on a custom stick and it will be worth every penny but you had best know what you are about before dropping that coin. I shot a factory Winchester that I bedded into a production stock for a number of years before I got my first custom stick. The difference was YUGE! but had I gotten the custom stick first I would not have known it and would have wasted most of the barrel learning to shoot it.
I will tell you that I am not a fan of the Remington 700 platform or most of their clones. A quote from Marty Bordsen (President of Badger Ordnance) If it has a round receiver and a detachable recoil lug itās a JAFeR (Just Another F*&^%@g Remington).
Your choice of caliber/cartridge will also be a determining factor. You will only get 1200 rounds (if you are lucky). with a 300WM. A 308 will not go to a mile and can be a challenge at 1K. A 30-06 loaded strong will get there just barely go a mile. 7mm RemMag mebby if loading heavy boolits, but barrel life.
The long and the short of it is that I could plunk you down behind a rifle at 0730 one morning dial on my dope, with my ammo and get you a CBS at a mile but you would never know how you got there.
A mile is the new 1K but 1K is no slouch either. A good 10 twisted 308 in a 24" tube will net you thousands of practice and load development rounds and teach you to weaponize the math. For the $$$ I would look at Savage simply because they twist their tubes 1-10 and that is IMPORTANT. Plus they are easy to swap. I worked for a scope company when I retired and have my biases and will recuse myself from advocating one over another. That said MAKE SURE you knobs match the reticle, you will thank me later.
Cheers,
Craig6
1 Like
I want so badly to hit a 1 mile target on something without a T&E and tripod. I donāt want to put that kind of money into it, though, I just want to do it once so I can say I did it. I have a friend who says he can get me there on a 30-06 if I just want to try it.
First I appreciate your intuitive answer, second I was under the impression that the flat trajectory of the 6.5 was the new way out to a mile. Third, at my age it sounds like I should just show up at your place at 0700 and that would fulfill that list.
However I understand that half the fun is the journey and I would want to know how I got there.
Wish I was 45 years younger, I would have the time but no bucks, now I have the bucks (sorta) but not the time.
I have some basics under my belt and can make sub moa shots at 200/250 yards on an AR platform. I am at my most patient behind my rifle on the ground.
The Savage Iāve looked at didnāt seem all that disappointing. And years ago when the Barrett 98 bravo was released, I had a great opportunity to own one, however the wife couldnāt understand spending $4000 on a rifle and another $2000 on a scope let alone the cost of ammunition even back then. She actually thought we could buy a car for that much.
Iāll contemplate the Savage and try to get myself out to 700 and see how much time it will take to get to a 1000.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of places in my neck of the woods that will take me to a mile.
@Ouade5 If you have someone with a 30-06 that knows their business then that is a real statement. Iām about 45% on DEAD CALM CBS at 1 mile with mine and Iām a better than fair wind spotter. I drive a 210gr Berger or a 208 AMAX at 2800fps 15ā from the muzzle so Iām a little hot. The ballistics data including the one I wrote shows that it goes subsonic 20 - 30ā from the target depending on atmospherics. It is very much on the ragged edge of itās capability. Iāve not done any serious development on heavier boolits as IMHO much over a 210gr is too much for a 10 twisted tube. As proof of that I shoot a 1.25" group at 100 yds, a 1.0" group at 200 yds and a 3/4" group at 300 yds. Those are INCH groups not MOA after 300 I get the standard group opening per range 400 being ~1" or 1/4 MOA./ IPHY and I have shot a 10 shot 1K group @ 4.6". If you have a bud that says he can do it Iād doggone sure give it a shot. I remember the first time I hit a CBS on MY stick with MY ammo and MY call, I was in an instantaneous 5 point stance.
Cheers,
Craig6
@Scott52 You aināt that much older than me, my first boat was the 704 (85ā-87ā) and my last boat was the 724 (99ā-03ā) with 15 years between the two but I never did Boomers. A good 308 no matter what your platform will get you to 1K but you either need to reload or have a YUGE bank account as Black Hills and FGMM aināt cheap. The hardest part is finding a bolt gun in a 1-10 twisted tube as most are 1-12 or more which does POOP for long range.
The 6.5CM is the hottest new thing on the market and for across the course, punching holes in paper on an NRA /CMP range it is great. Get beyond that range and it goes to he!!. I know/knew CWO DeMille back when he was a SGT and we were pulling targets together at Quantico, he is an amazing shooter and he developed that cartridge for shooting Highpower along with another fella from Hornady who designed boolits.
Truth be told it takes about 1-3 years of constant shooting to get āgoodā at long range. I had a pedigree prior to running off to become āDoc Oā the Boatā and it laid dormant for 6 years before I got back in the game. It took me another year to get tuned back up and I had to step up my reloading game in the process.
My point is that to get GOOD at long range you have to shoot and see the wind, to do that you need to burn ammo. Having a tube that can absorb 4K+ rounds before it goes south is a huge asset to learn on. When you realize you are out shooting your rifle you have reached the next level.
Cheers,
Craig6
@Craig6
I appreciate that. My first boat 599 (77-81) second boat 699 (81-85)
Someday I wish to get ahold of some BlackHills again. I did once for my 45ās canāt be beat!
Will a 1/10 have to be custom made or is it available on the open market?
@Scott52 So OK you got a couple years on me 
You will have to pay attention to the offerings. To the best of my knowledge Savage is the only one that offers 10 twisted tubes retail across the board. When the 118LR ammo came out for the military EVERYONE jumped on the 1-11 + twisted tubes but nobody realized that it was to prevent over pressure in an AR-10 platform. I did T&E/R&D on that round when they started with the 182gr Lapua D-82 as an answer to the 168gr BTHP Match boolit. Sierra eventually came up with the 175 SMK and that was turned into 118LR. Sub Lot A ws the first production run I got my hands on and it was STOOPID fast and accurate out of a bolt gun (I duplicated my bolt gun and AR-10 loads off of it). Then some guy said āWhat if Lance Criminal Smith links a bunch of it up and puts it in an M-60 or 240?ā So they had to dumb it down.
The nice thing about a Savage is that you can get a high end tube tell them its going on a Savage and they will drop it on your door step and you can install it yourself. A bud of mine has 300WM and 280AI tubes that he hot swaps on the range. Another swaps 30-06 and 308 and 7-08 on a long action. Kinda like an AR but for bolt gun guys.
Cheers,
Craig6
If I can do it just once, even if by accident, then Iām good. 
I go to a really good outdoor range for when I want to shoot long range and @Craig6 is absolutely right a .308 wonāt get you to a mile unless you just lobbed up a hail Mary and it just happened to land up there amongst em.
I know when I am shooting at 1,000 yards I am getting everything out of my .308
If you are just wanting to say that you hit a shot at a mile, itās probably cheaper to find someone who has the gear and expertise to get you to a mile. You are talking serious investment when you want to start talking about hitting at a mile.
Alot of factors go into making a shot at a mile.
2 Likes
That little statement is a mouth full.
Cheers,
Craig6
1 Like
Just going to jump in here for a moment - On May 20,2020 the new rifle for Marines
and Army and some other SOCOMS, is the Barrett MRAD M22 rifle. It comes in 308
300 Norma, and 338 Norma. This is 3 rifles in 1 chassis. MSRP is more or less $17000 in the kit. I donāt understand, buy the rifle for $6000 and two more barrels for $3200. Is the rest of the kit worth almost $7000 ???
Neat thing is when you switch barrels if you zeroed the first barrel, you put the 2nd
barrel in and and make a 2 click adjustment up or down and left or right and you
are right on target. This is an amazing rifle. For those looking to shoot 1 mile. This rifle
will do it.
I am not really looking to reach out to 1000 yds. which this rifle will do. I am looking
to go 700 yds. which is a snap for this rifle, plus you can get this rifle with a christmas
tree style reticle which is good if you want to go to Thunder Ranch and shoot. I see
this as a win for civilians wanting to get out to 1000 yds. Woo Hoo !! 
2 Likes