Is .380 enough?

Agreed. But there’s a school of thought that says ‘stopping power’ is a myth. Basically, unless you’re carrying riot bean bags, you’re not stopping a subject. You’re putting a hole in them. Defensive rounds aren’t meant to halt a person, they’re meant to go half way through and (hopefully) stop inside. The subject should stop due to pain or death, but not because they hit a small ball of lead.

I’m not arguing their case, but it’s an interesting perspective. But perhaps this is an entirely different topic.

I’m no expert but I don’t think defensive rounds are designed to go halfway through and stop. It is my understanding that they are designed to penetrate deep enough to hit vital parts but not so deep as to make them pass right through and hit innocent bystanders. That is my biggest issue with .380 all the reliable properly controlled tests I have seen show the .380 HP ammo more often than not does not penetrate to the currently accepted preferred depth and.380 FMJ almost always over penetrates.

I am not trying to wage a caliber war. Yes sometimes just showing a person a gun makes them run away. Sometimes you may just need to cause a little pain. But there are many reports of people who just keep on coming until something vital is hit. Any bullet that gets deep enough and is placed accurately enough will do the job in those cases regardless of caliber. Any bullet that passes through the target creates a hazard to innocent people. There are a lot of really well designed and tested bullets for .38, 9, .40, .45, .357, etc. that balance these factors really well. I have yet to see a .380 bullet that does to my satisfaction. With the possible exception of XTP bullets as I discussed above which unfortunately don’t work reliably in my gun. I spent a lot of time looking because I love my little .380.

All of this is why I now mostly carry a little 9mm with a good capacity magazine. It is as small as any of the .380s that I can shoot very fast and accurately, has the same recoil and takes ammo that has been shown to meet the best standards currently available. Which may or may not be good enough but that is another discussion;)

Whenever someone asks if X is “enough” I remind them of President Regan’s assassination attempt. He was shot with a .22 to the chest and joked his way into the OR. He didn’t even know he was shot at first. Secretary Brady was shot with the exact same round on the forehead, went down right away and spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair drooling. A Secret Service guy who took a shot for the President (don’t recall his name) went down in one shot too.

Placement is key and as long as you are willing to put up with the limitations of whatever you are carrying and TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN to be effective, then carry whatever you want.

Ps. I personally knew a guy that was shot in the HEAD from behind with a .45 ACP and was back at work 3 months later.

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Hi. On ammo. Interested in .380.

Also been practicing with .38 Spcl. Any thoughts on accuracy with wadcutter compared to the Hornady JHP, FTX? I compared the two but found the Hornady JHP, FTX a little accurate “for me”. If I can ever find Liberty Civil Defense ammo for a reasonable price, looking forward to testing for comparison accuracy.

For the .22LR revolver, I found the copper CCI’s to be my favorite, a cleaner ammo, easy in & out of the cylinder.

Yes, that’s what I meant. As opposed to a paint ball which will burst on impact, or a .50 cal which will pass right through you and the 5 people standing behind you. When we talk caliber, we tend to obsess over the total energy or TKOF of a round. But a defensive pistol round isn’t supposed to stop a tank, it’s designed to go a relatively short distance, into a person, and stop there.

I’m not sure I fully subscribe to the idea that stopping power is meaningless, but like most of you, I do subscribe to the idea that a good hit is better than a miss in any caliber. So from that perspective, the great caliber debate isn’t all that important to me. A hit center mass with a .22 is better than a miss with a 10mm. Carry what you’re comfortable shooting.

Agree that a hit is always better than a miss and if you can only hit reliably with a .22 than you should only carry a .22. But as @Enzo_T describes with his .45 story, bullets don’t always do their job properly. Our primary targets are surrounded by bone and while that bone can deflect or stop short any bullet it is more likely to do so to lighter, weaker loads especially .22. I did some very unscientific testing shooting a block of wood with .380 and 9mm to possibly simulate the effects of bone on bullets. The .380, 90gr HP, barely made it in. The 9, in 147gr HP, did noticeably better. It may be a bogus test but it made me more confident in the 9 over .380.

Carry what you want but be aware of the limitations of your choice. I occasionally carry a micro .380 but I know that I am giving up a noticeable amount in capacity, accuracy, speed and penetration when I do. And if I left the house knowing I was likely to get into a gunfight that day I would not be carrying the .380.

I don’t know how scientific it is but it sounds fun! :+1:t3:
It would be interesting to try the same thing with different types of rounds. My 9mm and .380 are both JHP, but FMJ rounds could give us different results since they’re meant to penetrate. I would expect the 9mm to penetrate more, but it’s hard to say. We played this game once with 5.56, and I was surprised how many rounds simply bounced off. There may be a lot more at play than the kinetic energy; I suspect the type of ammunition can make a huge difference.

We should also try this on watermelons, in memory of R. Lee Ermy.

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I did try a flat nose .380 fmj in the wood. It went in a little more than the .380 hp but less than the 9 hp. I think the weight of the bullet is important in maintaining momentum. When I lived in the NE hunters there would often recommend using blunt nose heavy bullets because they were less likely to deflect off of leaves and branches in the thick woods the deer like to hide in. Momentum is why I lean towards heavy side when choosing defensive rounds.

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.380 has a .373 bullet width
9 MM has .380 bullet width a .007 difference from a .380
.38 special bullet is .358 wide with a .012 difference from a 9 MM
.38 super auto bullet is .356 wide has a .002 difference from a .38 special but a different brass since it is for semi or automatic weapons. 9 MM and .38 super would be .024 of a difference.

Not sure what you are referencing from my earlier post but pretty sure that the 9mm Luger and .380 ACP both have bullet widths of a hair more than .355 inches.

I saw a video today of a Ruger ST1911 10mm review. The man said you could chamber a .40 cal round and shoot it but it would reek havoc on the extractor. But he said in an emergency it would probably work.

So would a .38 special round be fireable out of a 9mm gun? Curious.

These specs are out of my manual for reloading.

It’s kinda funny, when I read these threads about .22, .380. .45 .50… I want to ask the person asking the question, “Which one would you rather get shot with”. I like my .380 I also like my 9mm and my 357. I’m pretty confident that in a serious situation any one of those would be very helpful and effective in changing an attackers mind.

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Out of curiosity I pulled out the calipers and measured a .380 acp and 9mm bullet. Both measured .355 inches in diameter at their widest points.

I wouldn’t want to get shot with it. Or anything for that matter.
It’ll do.

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The Smith and Wesson website gives the manufacture dates of the recalled pistols and you can put in the serial number also to check.

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I’m in love with the S&W EZ Performance Center too! Just got it a couple weeks ago and shot it this week. It’s a 380 but PLENTY of power.

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@Howie57 The .380 & 9mm are the same bullet size, the .380 is nothing more than a 9mm short. For some people depending on the make of the .380 gun they can have a lot of kick/recoil

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Congrats!

Hmmm 22 lr, 22 mag, 32 interesting, 380 & up all better than a sharp stick. Whatever you can shoot well enough to hit what you aim at, I’d count that as good enough.

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