I Will Not... Unless I Must

Not attempted robbery? And he got to keep the “toy”? Wow. I hope he also understood he was almost shot due to his stupidity. I have a relative that is a retired LEO, and the stories he has told me have certainly opened my eyes.

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The kid was 15 years old. The desk officer/supervisor believed in second chances and you gotta remember this was 1985 and things were different back then. So he released the kid on his own recognizance to his mom after giving the kid a tongue lashing.

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I consider my weapon to be my “nuclear option”, by which I mean it only comes in to play when everything else has FAILED.

When all my precautions- situational awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, escape, and 911-have failed, only then do I draw my weapon in defense of life. And all of this happens in a matter of seconds.

No matter how it ends, everybody will be second guessing after the fact, including me.

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Thank you for your wisdom, your experience, and for sharing. I’ve been there, too. Much respect, brother.

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Brother, I wish I could give your response a thousand thumbs up! Not many people understand the complexities of being a protector who survived, and wisely utilizes, the experiences of their past. Many blessings!th (18)

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As I was cruising these posts I saw yours and was reminded of the couple in St Louis (?) who stepped outside, armed, to defend their property from “legal protesters” (thugs who broke through a gate) The local DA or ADA is trying to make her bones by prosecuting law abiding citizens. Notwithstanding the offers of $$, advice, or early, governor pardon(s), I would submit that you would be loathe to depend on detectives for due diligence. I have seen several crime documentaries that illustrate victims who spent years in prison before an innocence project secured their release, all after that victim didn’t get his “due diligence”. The point I’ll make here is this:

  • Get friendly with your neighbors. Possible local home owners’ association. block parties. group cookouts.
  • Make an appointment with the police chief and get his philosophy on incidents like that.
    • Have the Police Chief come out to your house and speak to your neighborhood.
  • Make a similar appointment with your city councilman.
  • Talk or meet with your state rep/senator
    I was surprised at my success! There aren’t very many people or groups that invite the Chief out for a group meeting. The Mayor nearly fell out of her chair when I asked her to come speak at our homeowners’ group. I agree that the govt dynamic is a little different these days. I’d be anxious to hear if anyone is doing this presently out there and if so, what results are you finding?
    My 2 cents,
    Ross8
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Don’t take this the wrong way, but most of my neighbors are meth heads. They don’t want the cops around here, and I have no desire to associate with them lol. While I agree with the St. Louis couple defending themselves, I don’t agree with how they went about it or their lack of basic firearm safety knowledge. If you want to be on my yard, go for it, but the second you bring violence apon my family, you have forced my hand. I truly believe and know that there are officers and detectives out there that will do their job and do it well. I have faith in those people that they will do the right thing and prove i did what I was forced to, and that my actions were righteous. I’m well aware that sometimes bad things happen to good people, but I am willing to take that chance in defense of my family or the defenseless. Might I end up in jail? Maybe, but that time it will be because I did the right thing. I can live with that.
I may take your advice on meeting with the police chief, but have already met a couple reps at a forum I attended last year. It was an enjoyable experience!

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That couple is being treated as no more than political pawns, and 2A scapegoats. They made tactical mistakes, but were justified in their self-defense.

Your listed strategies are brilliant! I personally volunteer patrol, and occasional investigative consultations. Despite all that, your advice on building good neighborhood relationships is the most important one, yet, so rare. I think that your strategies should be part of every self-defense training course. Thank you!

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Understand that I believe in protecting what is mine! But if you are smart you do not go out waving a fire arm unless there is a physical threat to you or family or property even on your own property. IMHO You may expose the holstered hand gun or have the AR-AK or what ever hanging from your shoulder in a non threating position. To let the said party (PERP) know what can happen. Not you do understand that they have already knocked down your front door and they have started a whole new ball game. “RIGHT” I do not know anything about law but some things just make since

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For each and every action we take, we must always consider the consequences. The McCloskey situation is a “Heyoķa” lesson (Heyoķas do everything backwards).
The worst thing done by the wife was waving a (reportedly nonfunctional) pistol like a mad woman. Sighs…
Personally, my reactions are cold, calculated, and dangerously focused, but that is my training; being aware of everything around me. However, I remain highly aware of the consequences for my actions, should I take a self-defense action.
The scuttlebutt is that after smashing the gate of the, well, gated community, threats of harm were made by certain elements within the “protesters” against the McCloskeys.
The legal issues are too convoluted, and I am, by no means, an attorney. Were the McCloskeys’ actions overboard, reckless, and dangerous? Perhaps so, but since I was not there, I have no true understanding of the circumstances the McCloskeys faced. Hmmm, hundreds against two of us?
I do question the State’s Prosecutor’s hot pursuit of charges against the husband and wife attorneys. I, as one who seeks truth, am troubled by the prosecutor’s obsssion with essentially “hanging” the couple. Is it for justice (none of the crowd faced even a “loud talking to” for trespassing and property damage)? Or is it a move of political ambition?

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It’s a cold, calculated, move for political ambition and a bit of slight of hand to get attention off of herself for some things she is being investigated for (the DA) that is.

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Very well stated. This world has become angry and unpredictable. I dont want to have to shoot an offender/invader but if my life or my loved ones or innocent people’s lives are threatened, I will not hesitate to use my weapon to defend them and myself. Thank you for sharing.

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Welcome to the family brother and you are blessed to be here.

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Amen Brother! Thank you.

Carl

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Welcome @CarlG1952!

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I definitely could not have stated it better, brother.

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Thank you for being here, brother.

@Taina I like your premise and where your mind goes. Alas when it comes down to it I have seen multi tour combat vets go into vapor lock and 17 year old kids dance across the battle space with moves that would make Fred Astaire jealous. I will tell you I had issues after the first gulf war pulling wallets of of dead Iraqi’s with pics of mom, wife, kids and such, it makes the futility of war that much more real. On the streets I can only imagine it is worse because there is MOM on the 5 O’clock news screaming “Why?” and our answers pail in comparison to her pain as survivors yet I have seen it on the battle field too many times. Urban warfare brings things close to home in more ways than you can imagine.

The lethality and finality of what we encumber ourselves with as sheepdogs or “turned” wolves is almost mind numbing. “Yay, those that would lay down their lives for their fellow man…” What ever our purpose and motivation that causes us to be either our own protectors or protectors of the sheep, the burden is large but in the end we will stand because we refuse to kneel and in that last heartbeat between submission and survival we will make the right decision.

Cheers,

Craig6

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Much love and well deserved respect to you, my brother.

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Having being a Deputy Sheriff and worked armed security for over 26 years, I have a similar view. I train as much as possible and keep doing my “What if…” scenarios. I’ve used my firearm in self defense while I’m n duty. I still ask why would somebody be that stupid?! Keep alert and hope we don’t need to use the skills we work so hard to learn.

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