@Lance welcome to the group.
The question becomes what is considered as “help”? Is only calling 911 considered as help? Depending upon the particular situation engaging may put the victim or yourself at greater risk and harm. The term help is subjective and grey depending on who is looking at it.
Sorry Lance but that simply is not correct. You are under no obligation to intercede in a violent encounter on behalf of others.
Not even police have a constitutional duty to protect.
As far as I know there is no state in which you are required to do anything other than report a felony if you observe one.
There is no requirement to get involved physically in any such encounter in any state I’ve ever heard of. That would be a huge constitutional conflict.
That was kind of my thought on it.
I think a lot of people get confused thinking that Good Sam protections also come at the expense of mandating action, they do not.
Exactly, because the extent of my involvement should be up to me on deciding
Not in a million years, we are not police, we have the right to protect ourselves our wife and families and it doesn’t extend from there. Call 911 operators and get out of there. There’s no expectation you need to help everyone in the world. Your licensing class covered this topic. People run the risk of jail time, court, loss of license, loss of job, the entire spectrum so call 911 then you’re entirely covered.
That’s incorrect. In every state you can defend any innocent third party if you decide to and the situation calls for it.
There is no requirement to do so but the laws are “self defense and defense of others”.
Third party encounters always come with much more risk and potential complications but we can all act in defense of strangers under the same laws that allow us to protect ourselves and our families.
Well sorry, in Illinois they teach it differently to be clear. But I have zero intention of helping someone I don’t know and putting my life on the line for someone I don’t even know their name and losing my license, my life, or any family members life. I stand by my statement I will call 911. I’ve been shot twice in my life, once in Vietnam the last time in Chicago by the Latin Kings so maybe I have a different view of damage to the human body and I have embalmed more than my share of people who died by a gunshot in my career as a Licensed Funeral Director / Embalmer. Also; if in Chicago city limits Chicago PD have no problems shooting down the good guy in an altercation. They don’t like people who are carrying
That’s certainly up to you but if they are teaching you that you can’t lawfully act in defense of third parties they are not teaching it correctly.
It’s wise to avoid ever having to defend yourself or anyone except as a very last resort and third party encounters are like opening a box full of rattlesnakes blindfolded.
What a great example to give. So many things could ACTUALLY be going on here.
The victim could be the criminal, the criminal could be the victim, it could be some weird role play or it could truly be at face value in which someone is truly in danger.
I am honestly not going to try to approach this one as there are so many variables into the real life situation. One being what state are you in? what time of day? what is the store? how many people are in the area? are you the only one to help? what weapon to you have on you? do you have a clear shot? and the list goes on. Bottom line is 911 would be called by me, just not sure at what point that would happen. We can run these things through are minds every second of every day but truly speaking, no one knows what they are going to do, until it is actually happening. With that being said, EVERYONE needs to run these scenarios through their heads and train for them as often as they can!! If you don’t know who to train with, contact the USCCA and they will put you in contact with the training department or with an Outside Sales Manager in your area who can help you in your area.
“Recognition is the art and tool of the expert warrior”.
The value of mentally training for every scenario you can reasonably imagine happening around you will give you a decided edge if anything ever does go bad for you.
You will learn to take all the steps to keep your heightened sense of 360 degree awareness on high whenever you venture out of known safe zones. You’ll get to where you are pretty much subconsciously counting and plotting mental routes to exits, identifying potential ambush sites, considering what actions you would take at A location if X occurs, how far you would be willing to go to defend yourself, family, friends and strangers.
I’m a firm believer that roughly 90% of successful self defense is simply mental planning and preparedness.
Yes, building on that at the range by executing moves, maneuvers shooting from unconventional potions, places etc adds to it, but it all starts between your ears and with your eyes and the mental exercises of working through all those scenarios.
Saw it happen every Monday morning as a Detective @WildRose. Over the weekend Deputies had arrested guys for beating the h@ll out of their women. Monday morning some of the women were on the phone telling me they wanted to drop charges. Either saying the deputy misunderstood them (as I was looking at photos of their contusions and lacerations) or the deputy was lying just to get their man in trouble.
Could you even count the number of times it happened on domestics?
Just about all were domestics. Women who got beat by a stranger were never forgiving.
Under Illinois law, we have the right to help someone who is the victim of a “forcible felony.” We are under no obligation to do so, but, in the Illinois law has a provision to defend the life of a stranger.
@45IPAC Ok Chet good to know. Have a happy Weekend
You too. Keep calm, and carry on.
I would call 911 and stay there to monitor the situation but I would make it known that I had called 911 to both individuals. But if he starts to stab the woman I would take him out, or if he charged at me I would take him out.
I like that you would call 911, @John95, and that you would monitor the situation.
I would suggest a slight verbiage tweak -
But if he starts to stab the woman I would stop the threat, or if he charged at me I would stop the threat.
I know it sounds like semantics, but it is stating exactly what your intention is and will help with your legal defense, if needed.