I think the point is that you do everything you can to avoid getting into scenario 1 as if it gets to the point where you have to pull your gun, it likely won’t end well for you even if you get out alive. At best, the media and anti-2A folks will crucify you. At worst, you’ll probably face criminal and civil charges. If you are in that situation, hope you have had some hand-to-hand training and try to quickly and decisively end the fight before the other guy knows you have a gun and can get it.
In scenario 2, if you’ve drawn and can’t later articulate why you felt you life was in danger, you’re now at least brandishing.
That said, in either situation, you deal with the immediate problem of getting out of there alive first.
I see the issue now… and I will offer a 100% guaranteed solution, no fee. You are an attorney looking for legal advice. But we are not attorneys, we are tacticians. So find yourself a good attorney that specializes in defensive use of force and give them as many scenarios as you please.
There, glad that’s all cleared up finally. No charge… consider it to be a benefit of belonging to such a helpful community.
An unarmed person can still be a deadly threat. Is the person bigger/stronger/have extensive training in hand to hand? Do you have some physical limitations/older/smaller? How can you be 100% certain he’s unarmed?
There are so many variations when it comes to the use of force, not to mention differences in state laws and individual training, that posting a scenario isn’t the easiest way to figure out what legal implications there may be.
I would suggest reading about disparity of force and use of like force/increasing force. Here’s a video that starts covering the use of force without seeing a weapon:
There are many other thing to consider. Does the attacker have a weapon concealed? What can he use as a weapon of opportunity? Is he alone or are there others with him? How can you try to deescalate the situation? Who around you may be able to help you? Who can call the police if something does start?
There are so many options to consider for every variation of every different scenario that we would need multiple lifetimes to cover them all… and by then people would think infinitely more scenarios.
I would suggest starting with a good concealed carry class, read the books Concealed Carry and Home Defense Fundamentals and Should I Shoot - they will both get you thinking about how to manage the situation and the possible legal ramifications.
A few years ago, I was confronted with by raging lunatic at a rural self serve fueling station. He drove slowly past where I was refueling on the other side of the pump island, screaming profanities and then positioned his car at an angle blocking my vehicle from leaving. He then exited his car heading towards me. As soon as he rounded the rear of his car I observed a black object in his right hand. The entire time the assailant was screaming, not shouting, but screaming profanities; he was having a really bad day.
I brandished my cw, which caught him totally by surprise and he stoped in his tracks at the rear of his car and started yelling a remake of the NRA Eddie Eagle slogan, “call 911 he has a gun.” Obviously he was trying to make me the aggressor; must be an accomplished experienced criminal?
I live in a stand your ground state and was the only thing between this nutcase and my unarmed wife inside our vehicle.
I have no idea why this individual picked me for this assault, but believe it, my sidearm was condition 1. I am not proud of the action that I took that day, but even years later, as I relive this scenario, it was my best and only viable choice to take.
The assailant drove off in his car and parked in an empty lot across the street. He appeared to be talking on a cell phone.
My next move was to leave the fueling station and drive towards home. He never followed nor have I had any further contact with this individual.
I called my attorney after arriving home, as this type of an unusual encounter shakes one up and I wasn’t certain where I stood legally after my actions. I half expected to get pulled over by a LEO on the way home, but that never happened. I half expected a local LEO to knock on my door at home but that never happened either. My attorney advised me that I did not have any responsibility to call a LEO, but that I could if I desired to. I declined. No further action was required. I have read quite a few times that many non-reported confrontations (brandishing) are prevented by what happened that day. Believe it! It can be an appropriate way out of an encounter; but, you must be in fear of great bodily harm or death; and willing to follow through. I have been trained by some of the best for such an encounter as this.
It was the assailants aggressive actions that might have ruined his day and devastated mine.
Thanks for your question Thomas 153
I pulled the sidearm from it’s holster, cocked and unlocked with a shell in the chamber; used to be called condition 1, (not certain if it still is called that and went into position ready. I never pointed the sidearm directly at the assailant.
I believe you should be. You were alert and went to defensive action properly, and yet with appropriate restraint all at just the right moment. Plus, you didn’t get punished for your reaction to the assailant’s instigation of a bad situation. Well done!
Then you did not brandish your firearm. If you did not utter a threat of violence, and you did not point your firearm at the other person, there was no brandishing. It would be like carrying a rifle in your arms - that is not brandishing either.
There was talk about going to a bar to see a friend’s band play. I live in Florida. It’s illegal to conceal at a bar or any place where alcohol is the primary thing being consumed. I think that’s morally the case as well because nothing good happens at bars when people are drinking.
So, I see no one has pointed out the obvious. The problem with both scenarios is the fact there are no witnesses! So it comes down to your word and a dead mans. If you thought your life was in danger and the evidence matches your statement. All you would need is an average attorney. If both scenarios had witnesses, a great attorney. It comes down to one thing when using deadly force. Would the average person believes you thought your life was in danger. It takes only 1 out of 12 to walk.
I think this would be the perfect opportunity to incorporate some sort of “less than lethal” tool to your everyday carry routine. I carry POM pepper spray for this very reason. A situation that doesn’t rise to the level of lethal force, but can certainly be justified in using because with the presence of a gun, the situation could turn ugly in a split second.
it’s made by POM Industries, but I’m not sure what it actually stands for. Here is the link to their website: