If you are a gun owner that owns a shotgun. Look into less than lethal rounds also. They also make o.c. rounds also very good stuff for close range. This might be an option for some of y’all that live in apartments or a one story house or duplex. As it will definitely put the bad guy down. And you have a lot less of a risk of lead going through drywall and hitting a friendly.
This also good if you have kids in the home. I’m not saying a rubber bullet won’t penetrate drywall. But at least the chances of killing a family member or your neighbor is lessened.
I personally would never use less than lethal options. I understand where you’re coming from. However OC rounds indoors is going to affect neighbors and less than lethal leaves an huge liability of a civil suit.
Living in close proximity or even connecting walls is a extremely sensitive issue.
Either way is a law suit no getting around that these days. Yes you get a law suit but you have the peace of mind knowing you didn’t kill a friendly.
A timely offering on Paul Harrell’s YouTube channel Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo Some of the options may not provide the results needed.
When I was young burglars cased neighborhoods and hit homes when they were empty. Today invaders hit knowing you will be there. Violent encounters are planned. Shooting to harm is beyond my comprehension.
I prefer lead rounds myself. I started the thread to get some folks thinking of other options based on their living conditions
Rubber rounds wont do much to a drug infused person…
My only addition is that if you decide to use a less than lethal round, make sure the second shot is not less than lethal.
I’m not law enforcement dealing with crowd control or an individual with mental health issues.
In general if you deploy a firearm in a fight you are employing deadly force no matter what it is loaded with. Even if you chose non lethal ammunition you have still used deadly force.
The last thing I want to deal with after dealing with the initial situation is a live horribly bruised/damaged person that will live (and be unable to work or provide for his extended family) facing me in a court room with 27 color photographs with circles and arrows and a description of how it would be used against me. (Unabashedly borrowed from Arlo Guthrie)
That a great option Mike!
Even if you shoot the suspect the defense team will have a bunch of photos saying you viciously shot the suspect and now he is dead and can’t provide for his family because of you also. It can can go both ways.
Avoid panic fire.
There are no “less than lethal options” they are “less lethal options”.
Those options should never be relied upon unless you have backup with lethal coverage.
I get your point about living in apartments and the concern over pass throughs harming an innocent but those less lethal rounds cannot be relied upon to stop a threat which is why police will only use those options when they have a partner with a lethal option at the ready.
A person would be much better off getting regular practice and using high quality self defense ammo.
But overall rounds leave a mess usually causing you to have to replace furnishings. You could also end up in a big legal issue as the use of non lethal ammunition could be seen as you were not in fear of your or others life. Lawyers have won cases by using that.
Figures the way the courts are lol.
Just keep in mind those are not “non lethal” rounds, they are “less lethal rounds” and that even when using them you are using “lethal force”.
According to a local Attorney. The use of LESS THAN LETHAL ROUNDS could be used against you in court as by using them can demonstrate that you did not feel that your or others lives were at risk. Better to use hollow points and end the threat quickly which would show that you felt your life or another’s was in immediate danger making it legal to use a firearm and lethal force. By you using less than lethal rounds you are opening yourself to being prosecuted.
I think that if the situation has deteriorated to the point where firing a weapon is required I want something that will Stop the situation Now. I have no desire whatever to use a weapon, but if I have too I want it to end the threat. My old Dad told told me many years ago “Son, never start a fight, but if you find yourself in one, End it”. Good advice.
Slight correction. There are no “less than lethal rounds” as people particularly at close range can be killed from rubber pellets, slugs, and bean bags, etc. At 10yds or less the wad itself can deliver a fatal blow.
They are “less lethal” but not “less than lethal” as you may still kill the person you’re shooting at even if that isn’t your intent but they are all still capable of causing fatal injury.
I don’t know that I would buy the atty’s argument either, we shoot to stop the threat, not to kill, if your intent is to kill then it isn’t self defense.