If you’re shopping for true fighting pistols, stick to striker-fired designs - no DA/SA makes and models exist to serve this purpose, so don’t waste your time and $$ on them - they’ve been reduced to house-gun and range-gun duties, hardly fit for the street. These SHOULD have been designed and developed along the lines of revolvers - load, aim, fire - the REAL improvements I’ve come to appreciate in pistol designs are polymer frames, polygonal rifling, and adjustable grips for small hands. Despite what you think about Glocks, they established a platform for other makers to develop their own designs. When I was pistol-shopping - and I’ll NEVER put that much effort into it, again - I realized that the DA/SAs I was FORCED into buying could ACTUALLY make you UNSAFE in a real-world situation. THINK about this…AMEN.
Everyone has a right to express his / her opinions… but I’m really surprised reading posts like this.
DA/SA pistols have been in service for a long time and are still valued by millions users.
Can you explain how DA/SA pistols make you UNSAFE and how come they are not “true fighting pistols”?
As I’ve said, the ONLY external “safety” device that belongs on a pistol is a POSITIVE, FRAME-mounted THUMB-safety - and THIS mainly intended to avoid accidental discharge if you DROP the gun. In a sudden stress-filled, real-world situation, the risk here is forgetting to take the safety off, if you’re forced to shoot. These other cutesy-fartsy features lead to laziness, carelessness, and piss-pathetic gun-handling skills. Take loaded-chamber indicators - WHAT happened to “press-checks”, where you actually have to ease back the slide, and PHYSICALLY verify that a cartridge is chambered? The only improvement I’ve seen to make this easier is the addition of front-end slide serrations - NOT squinting at some geedee indicator, or a check-window. JAK! Shopping guns has fallen into shopping cars, cameras, and fishing tackle. I’d think I was existing in an alternate universe if Springfield Armory got rid of their bullshit grip-safety and indicator in their “XD”.
If you just can’t bear the strain from my opinions, I’m more than willing to admit to being a walking, talking middle-finger FOR the shooting public in general, and TO the gun industry in particular. It’s time for POSITIVE changes in pistol-design, and time to “thin” the HERD. I’m tired of the industry telling us what we need, and what we should buy - have you spotted the deliberate design-flaw in the Beretta 80X “Cheetah”, yet? And these hammerheads want a cool $900 for this POS .380!
I do not understand how that relates to DA/SA handguns. That is a feature of a 1911. However, my Berettas have no external safeties and are DA/SA. I do not like striker-fired handguns, without or without external safeties.
It can be argued that mandating one particular type of pistol which comprises one particular firing action and one particular safety device as being the most capable and safest possible configuration in itself could
Regarding the firearms manufacturers designing products with features intended to ‘catch more fishermen than fish’, well, yes, they do that. So does every other manufacturer of consumer products. Caveat Emptor. It is up to the consumer to educate themselves and choose the product they think best suits their needs. It’s not up to an individual to decide what is best for every other buyer.
If Glocks are your preferred model, great. Buy one. Buy a hundred of them. Be happy. I’m not sure how you could have been “forced to buy” a gun you didn’t like or want. Glocks are like roaches–they’re everywhere. I’m sure you could have found one. I’m also not sure why your personal preference should become the only industry standard, which would result in every gun buyer being “forced to buy” what YOU think they need.
Every smart person knows (because we have been told / taught on basic firearm classes) that any safety mechanism may fail.
Grip safety, thumb safety, pin / striker block safety, magazine disconnect safety… All theses are mechanical safety that in some point may stop working.
The only safety mechanism you should trust is YOU. You are responsible for making the firearm safe whenever you are not in the targets ready to consciously take a shot.
This applies to any firearm, SAO, DAO, DS/SA…
I can agree that “loaded chamber indicator” is just fancy feature worth nothing… but this is a feature, not safety.
You have mentioned “drop safety issue”… it’s actually the biggest problem for SAO pistols designed based on 1911 series 70. Lack of firing block safety may cause accidental discharge… but the proper design can avoid such problem.
What about P320 drop safety issue? Striker fired pistol… and had that problem… All because of bad design. Quickly corrected and no issues anymore.
Thank God we have been seeing positive changes in gun manufacturing, but nobody tells you what to buy.
There are hundreds of models you can choose from and you always find what you want or need.
Firearms market follow shooters needs, not vice versa. Long trigger pull and DA mechanism was added because shooters needed it. Grip safety doesn’t exist in many SAO pistols, so you can avoid it if you don’t want it.
Anyway… if you try to find unicorn you may find it if you spend some time looking for it. But it’s not fair telling all of us that all other pistols are bad, unsafe and we should avoid them.
What about DAO’s?
Guess I’m an old dumbass veteran…I’ll carry a 1911 10 mm till the day I expire.If you aren’t practicing actuating the safety when you are practicing drawing that’s a mistake.I personally don’t like plastic guns…but I damn sure am glad my fellow gun owners can pack one if they choose.
I would’ve owned a 1911 forty years ago if they’d just gotten rid of the asinine grip-safety - but its continued, iconic existence as the classic SA has ruled this out. Colt’s DA “Eagle” entered in the competition in '94 against Sig, Beretta and Ruger was a failure and fiasco - and a total embarrassment to Colt’s prestigious reputation up to then.
If you’re the least interested in oher options “out there”, look at Grand Power’s P40L in 10mm, the P45L, and the FNX-45 - you sound like you like big guns and “ball-buster” calibers. You never know - these two makers COULD be planning all-steel models of these in the near-future. FYI
What’s the problem.with a grip safety? I have an SA only, hammer fired pistol with one and honestly, I don’t even notice it, ever. Its a total non-entity in the operation of the gun, but with a 4 lb, short, SA trigger pull, it doesn’t seem like a bad idea. They’ve been around for over a hundred years not causing trouble, as far as I know.
People who don’t like grip safety or pin it… they just have no idea why it exists.
This is actually the only external safety mechanism that doesn’t require to be put on by the shooter. You may forget to put thumb safety on… but you never forget to do this with grip safety… very smart mechanism…
Some manufactures listened shooters and created new 1911 pistols without grip safety. We have so many different options these days, that you cannot grumble anymore…
I have read a couple of accounts that a few people have had issues with some grip safeties. It doesn’t sound very wide spread.
I like to test my self defense pistols by shooting a box or so of ammo with a less than perfect grip. I want to make sure it will go bang and eject the round even if I get a poor grip in a stressful self defense encounter. If I had a firearm with a grip safety I would definitely test to see if it would be an issue but I suspect it won’t be for most people.
I have no gripe - I don’t know about now, but years ago Brownells offered a kit to convert Smith K- and N-frames to DAOs - they were designed will ball-bearing actions, to bypass cocking the hammer entirely.
One more thing that can fail. NRA training class, and my father - 5+ decades ago, stated, safeties are mechanical devices that can fail. My father even stated, never trust a safety because it can fail. He then related a story about a friend of his whereby he kept playing with the safety to ensure it worked until it finally failed. I was probably about 5 years old at the time, and I still remember it today.
That is a valid concern. The more moving parts you have the more likely that one of them stops working when you need it. A good reminder to keep up on the general maintenance and to replace old parts before they wear out.
Which is why the only safeties that we can rely on are our training and our minds, even those might fail us if we are not careful, hence the 4 rules, pared to 3 several or more years ago by the NRA. Firearm pointed in a safe direction; treat it as if it is loaded; be sure of target and what is in front and behind the intended target; finger off trigger, until ready to shoot.
The NRA 3 rules, Always keep the gun pointed In a safe direction; Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot; Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. For us, CC, and home defense, means it is always loaded, except during cleaning and dry fire practice.
I don’t like DA/SA, any of them, for one simple reason: They aren’t consistent.
I want the same trigger pull, every time.
I own a couple of SA/DA pistols. I have only fired them in DA mode a few times to see what it feels like. 99.9% of the time I operate it as a SA with no undesirable side effects. I also own an SAO pistol, and it handles no differently than the SA/DA models.
I guess I don’t see what the big deal is.