I’m reading this old thread with interest given what we’ve seen in Georgia. Have any opinions changed one way or the other?
By interpretation of GA. law this really doesn’t change my views at all. I believe the men in the case acted illegally. I think that the 2 men are guilty of very serious charges as it relates to the death of the young man. More information may develope later that changes that opinion.
I do find it interesting that he went from out for his daily run, to being captured on camera somewhere he probably shouldn’t have been. I only mention that as both parents and media painted this as him being an athlete who was out for his daily run.
Based on ‘interpretation’ of Georgia law, there is far too many variables.
The charge ‘Aggravated Assault’, might not fit. It requires an intent that may not be present.
The murder charge, might be better as a ‘Manslaughter’ charge.
There does not appear to be intent to kill, nor any actual intent to cause bodily harm, it seems per the little evidence we have to be something that got out of control and led to a death, an unjustified death, but not murder or aggravated assault, per the words of the Georgia law.
This has got to be the ballsiest of all citizens arrest stories: June 2014
I’ll quote myself and even though your state may have provision for citizen arrest [excuse my Louisiana law lengo]
I’ll get our friend @MikeBKY who is retired deputy sheriff as well as active criminal defense attorney for the state of Kentucky explain WHY ITS A BAD IDEA to try and do quote on quote Citizens arrest.
Like I see them drop it on ground and you hold them at gun point till cops arrive. if possible kick their weapon away but dont put your hands on them,
A LOT OF THINGS CAN GO WRONG IN A BLINK OF AN EYE! How do you know they are alone?
The biggest problems with citizen’s arrest is that most citizens have little to no knowledge of the law and, even if they can quote the statute verbatim, they do not have any context to use as to how the courts of the location have interpreted the statute. I spoke to a guy who always carries handcuffs and asked him why. His response was just in case. I get it, just in case they may be needed. But did he know the legal ramifications of it. (BTW his wife is a cop) If you attempt a citizen’s arrest and you are wrong, you will probably be charged with criminal false arrest and very possibly kidnapping if you move them from where the original arrest occurred. You can also expect the lawsuit which will not be covered by your liability insurance and, if it is not a self defense incident, neither USCCA nor any of its counterparts will be there to bail you out or defend you, civilly or criminally.
And the biggest question ends up being, do you know whether the crime you are going to allege was committed leading up to the arrest is actually a felony? Sure, there are easy ones like murder, rape and arson, each which may be worth the risk of falsely arresting someone. But how about stealing something? What makes it a felony where you live and are you sure that is still the law?
A known criminal, known to at least one of the men involved in the incident, and known to have, at least once, used a firearm in the commission of a crime, involved in various thefts, robberies, etc.
I know I would not have tried to arrest him or otherwise hold him until the police arrived, but one of the men was an ex-police officer, so, one would suspect at least he knew what he was doing. It is now a matter for the courts and a jury to decide - a situation none of us ever wants to be involved in. One of the reasons we are here, to learn proper situational awareness and self-defense, be good citizens, and avoid making bad decisions as best we can.
Loved that response @MikeBKY!
Imagine the district attorney using that what mike just said! BUT pointing the finger at you!
Very good point, @MikeBKY. If you instigate a situation, you cannot claim self-defense.
I like the structure of that statement as well, I’ll quote you on a paper, don’t worry ill cite you lol!!
From what I’ve read so far, the last option when carrying concealed is to use your handgun. But I’ve been wondering about a scenario in which you happen to come upon a crime being committed, like a convenience store robbery, for example. Since my CWP does not make me a LEO, I’m guessing that I would have to behave as someone who doesn’t carry, meaning I’d call 911. Is that a correct conclusion? Thanks!
you’re asking a question that could go any number of ways. We all hope to help, but as you eluded to, we’re not deputized nor trained as law enforcement officers (excluding actual law enforcement). Therefore, we really have no place acting the part. Now, if you witness a crime unfolding where the suspect is seemingly just trying to get the cash and run…you have to ask yourself, “Is it worth it to get involved?” I know that sounds callous and self serving, but each of us has “Chosen” to take on the responsibility to arm ourselves to help protect our families and ourselves, can’t do that if we’re locked up for getting involved. We’re not arming ourselves to become vigilantes and try and right the wrong where ever we go. We choose to arm ourselves knowing that if we are forced to draw and even fire our firearms, we’re likely going to be subjected to legal woes, financial burdens, and much heart ache in general. So, if some guy comes in and demands money from a clerk and is showing no real sign they’re going to kill anyone…just looking to get cash and flee…is it worth it for you to draw your firearm, possible risk a shootout or be forced to kill that person all because you feel a sense you need to stop a criminal?
Again, I know some here might choose to do exactly that and wouldn’t let such a waste of a person get away with it…and that’s their call and their burden. Me, I will react only if I see that someone can or is getting hurt but otherwise, I will remain calm and keep an eye on things and only choose to react if lives are literally threatened. I guess the reason I prefer it my way is because I’m in a state that would love to lock me up because I’m a gun owner so I’d prefer to NOT give them a reason since I know they’d label me a vigilante any chance they get.
You might look into your own area to determine the best answer though and ask some lawyers what the typical costs would be if you got involved and had to defend yourself. That might help you figure out if it’s worth it to you.
Combined two threads of the same topic. ~Dawn
And it has already our front doors. Check out my other post: WATCH: Milwaukee man mobbed by BLM activists—arrested for trying to defend his home | The Post Millennial - News, Politics, Culture, and Lifestyle
Changed the link ~Dawn
He is inside of his home/property and just looking out his window. I did not see him pointing the gun at them it was to dark. I seen him lift the long gun to show them he had one but I didn’t see him point. At anytime they could’ve rushed towards his house. I would’ve been ready also but they would have never known I had a rifle on me. Element of surprise would be the way to go.
Totally agree, as soon as they breach, I’m not serving dinner!
They were not invited, I will have 911 (if they still exist) on the phone so they can hear the exchange!
I imagine that mobs forcibly breaking into my home is still against the law??? Not sure anymore. Furthermore, if breaking into my home to do harm to me or my family, I can only assume that protecting that is still a God given right.
I hope and pray that theses dogs don’t start breaching people’s homes! That is the kind of line in the sand that SHALL NOT be crossed (and when I say SHALL NOT, I mean it!) and I’m not talking about an Obama line in the sand, mine is more heavily defined and defended! It’s the only reason there is a lock on the door is to protect the moron from harm!
Trespassers will be punished severely, and we might even call the police.
Remember the advise and instructions on the back of your USCCA member card.
Get off the phone with 911 as soon as possible as ANYTHING you say or do can be used against you… regardless of how “justified self-defense” you think it is. This is very important to help keeping you out of jail.
Hi, Erik - Excellent answer, and pretty much in line with my thinking. Firing is always the last resort, as we all learn, so letting the police do their job in these circumstances is best, most, if not all, times.