Happy Birthday, @Patrick3!
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It’s a good lesson that you at least realized your condition and that your response could have been better.
I had one, (just one) of those this year. At the gas station (Your highest risk area for a criminal encounter) I was poking around with the buttons and my credit card. I usually profile and observe my immediate area and at least rank people as “not a threat” or “possible threat”, when I was addressed by an older pair of ladies within 3 feet of me! I didn’t even see them coming! They were just there, it was harmless, the one lady was the gas attendant and the other was trying to figure out how and what to do about her flat tire.
Yes, I did fully assist the lady with the flat tire. This was a huge reminder to always when out and about to live in the yellow.
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Decades ago, I watched an HBO documentary that included many interviews with a convicted Mafia hit man called the “Ice Man”. This guy had zero remorse and described many hits in extreme detail.
He described shooting people thru their front door. One of his methods was to knock on the door after dark. He always loved it when the door had a peep hole because he could see the interior light coming thru it. The peep hole would darken or go black whet ne victim looked out. That told him exactly where the victim was and the best place to shoot.
I never look out a door peep hole to see who is at the door.
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I understand you’re very security conscious, @EDC_always and I’m glad you’re that aware of how your tech is set up. Remember, others here don’t have that security background and may take cues from you on how to state things on the Community. For everyone’s safety, please be very careful who you post.
Tech has a way of leaving unknown breadcrumbs…
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Brandishing is an interesting word that makes the stand your ground law useless,I know because that was what I was charged with,and the USCCA furnished me with an Atty and all charges were dropped as truer self defense,but had to wait another 2 weeks so the stupid background ck on me and when I got my weapon the stole the 7 rounds that were in the mag and weapon,that was theft in all form of personal property. The rounds are not exactly since they are DRT rounds,they are nicknamed DEAD RIGHT THERE rounds (Dynamic Research Technologies)Rounds
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I don’t have a holster for my double 12?
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Well,I do keep my DP-12 double pump locked and loaded all the time and closely available.
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“Brandishing” is a really interesting concept to me, in part because it’s so nebulous. I honestly wouldn’t know of I was brandishing, even in my home state. I know that’s dangerous, but that’s why it fascinates me.
It’s also because when I was taught escalation of force (EOF), an important step included “show your weapon.” (Google the 5 S’s) This included the rifle I already had at the low ready, so it’s not just a concealed carry concept. The point is to let a person know you are armed and give them a moment to make good life choices, in hopes that you may not have to shoot. But in some states, that might be considered “brandishing,” even though I’m trying to prevent shooting someone.
There’s probably a legal line that separates those two, but it’s always made me feel uneasy, as if I’m supposed to skip an entire step in the EOF.
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Very interesting concept. Where did you learn about EOF? Perhaps military or law enforcement? Sounds logical to me. Why we as licensed concealed carriers cannot practice EOF is unfortunate in my opinion.
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I googled, it was all about how to soothe a crying baby!
At any rate, it seems like in modern legal climate “showing” will be interpreted as you did not have fear of imminent danger to your life, and wanted to scare someone.
There are better ways to indicate you will defend yourself. Gesture for the aggressor( and for any cameras on the scene) to stop with your hands and use command tone of voice. If they don’t stop at that –well, now you have reasonable fear for your life.
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Yes, and between shouting and shooting, I was trained to “show” that I am armed in an attempt to avoid shooting. (In any EOF framework, one can skip steps depending on the scenario.) But it seems as though if I, as a regular plebeian carrying concealed, were to unholster my weapon and not shoot,* I could still face charges for brandishing.
*I think it’s fair to say I shouldn’t draw a weapon unless I’m prepared to shoot, I’m just talking about a scenario where I unholster my weapon and then the assailant withdraws.
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If you are open carrying, or are carrying or have a slung long gun, in a potentially confrontational situation, is it brandishing?
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I am going to quote Attorney Tom Grieve here.
It Depends so check your local listings.
Your state and my state probably don’t define brandishing the same way.
In Michigan if you display your gun for the purpose of inciting fear or wave it about then you could be charged with Brandishing.
Reading your question this is what I would say.
If your long gun is slung infront of you like a soldier carries it and you have a hand on your gun near the trigger then yes I would consider that brandishing especially if your in a confrontation with someone.
However if your long gun is slung over your shoulder muzzle pointed at the ground and your hand is not on the gun then no I would not consider it brandishing.
I am not a lawyer thought or a prosecuting attorney so my suggestion is pose this to Attorney Tom Grieve during the monthly legal training you get as a member and remember the answer is going to vary by state.
All that being said sometimes Brandishing can be used as a deterrent to stop someone from criminally assaulting you and save you from having to use deadly force.
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Do you just happen to be holding it when a fight breaks out around you, or did you put it in your hand after it started? Did you go to a demonstration wearing a long gun?
Depends on the state laws where you are, and your intent of having the weapon in your hand. Brandishing laws are all about intent. After you fire it, a whole different set of laws take effect, and you’ve no longer merely brandished it.
I’m not an attorney, but brandishing laws seem pretty straight forward to me. As in, did you intend to intimidate with it??
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I can argue, and I’m sure in court i would win, that holding the grip of my firearm while wearing it with a front sling is to keep the muzzle pointed down and thus keeping my firearm under control. MSPs threats about this very thing at the last protest would never hold up in court.
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Jonathan4
Are you an Attorney? Have you actually researched this in-depth?
I am not going to get into a debate about it you have your opinion and I have mine.
I am not a lawyer and unless your an attorney who specializes in these types of cases your voice holds no more weight than mine.
I could be wrong. But like I said ask an attorney who knows the local laws and court cases. You also have to know the totality of the situation matters a great deal.
As someone trained in Situational Awareness my question would be how many Threat Indicators are the person with the long gun broadcasting?
If someone is standing there calmly with a long gun slung in front of them holding their gun to control it then you only have one signal. You are probably right in Michigan this is ok.
If a man is standing there shouting with a red face and his rifle is slung in front of him and his hand on the gun then you have three Threat Indicators.
I doubt very much this would be ok during a verbal argument.
The totality of the circumstance matters.
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/sarcasm
“Uh nope, when I talk about laws and court cases I pull it all put of my backside.”
/sarcasm off
I do my research and I consult with Attorneys. Of those I’ve spoken to, all of them agree that not keeping your weapon under control is far more likely to get you in trouble. They all also agree that MSPs statement about what constitutes brandishing is utter bs and wouldn’t hold up in court.
Now that being said:
Brandishing in Michigan is generally defined as pointing and waving a firearm about with the intent to intimidate.
Other states may or may not define brandishing in this way. It’s best to research your own states definition and then confer with an attorney or two. Otherwise you get people making cracks about you just having an opinion. 
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From Aug. 2019. In Michigan: "Yesterday the Michigan Court of Appeals handed down a decision in a highly public and very controversial case that gun owners across the United States should applaud. In short, it demonstrates and validates the value of armed self-defense even when you do not pull the trigger and — crucially — have no cause to pull the trigger. It justifies the brandishing of a gun as pre-emptive measure to block the use of unlawful force.
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Thanks for posting the link. I came across the story when I was researching Brandishing as a Deterrent to stop an assault.
Unfortunately, after that court case, the prosecutor got the woman to plead guilty to brandishing a firearm. She probably would have won in a court of law but she took a deal so she could return to her family.
Here is the link.
All that being said it sets a good legal president.
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