Brandishing vs showing?

here is a question that occurred to me…

you find yourself at a gas station or where ever… drove there or rode… depending…

and someone took offense or some such and followed you and gets all road ragged at ya…

starts screaming and even starts making threats…

if you move aside you coat or vest or whatever and let me see you carrying but you don’t touch it…

but you do have your hand ready so to speak… is that brandishing???

you of course hopefully end the thing there and of course call 911 immediately after…

OH here is a thing… was living in some apartments for a time…

was walking back from the mail box’s and some ejit droves up and tells me he’s got his 357 and threatens me (doesn’t produce it or show it BTW) this back around 1990 ish…

made me angry and I replied wait right there n let me go get my 44… he put it in gear and backed away…

WTAF is wrong with such people??? what do they hope to create or accomplish with that sh*t???

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In my mind, brandishing is an ACTION verb, requiring the person to at least wave the firearm indiscriminately, if not pointing directly at another person or between two or more persons. For me, just touching the firearm in its holster does not constitute “brandishing” so much as it does posturing.

As for. “WTAF is wrong with such people??? what do they hope to create or accomplish with that sh*t?”

Some people just get off on what they feel is control. Once you challenged him he folded like a cheap knife. Fear is the bully’s weapon of choice.

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From here:https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter10/76-10-S506.html***Effective 5/14/2019***

76-10-506. Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.

(1) As used in this section:

(a) “Dangerous weapon” means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. The following factors shall be used in determining whether an item, object, or thing is a dangerous weapon:

(i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;

(ii) the character of the wound produced, if any; and

(iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was exhibited or used.

(b) “Threatening manner” does not include:

(i) the possession of a dangerous weapon, whether visible or concealed, without additional behavior which is threatening; or

(ii) informing another of the actor’s possession of a deadly weapon to prevent what the actor reasonably perceives as a possible use of unlawful force by the other and the actor is not engaged in any activity described in Subsection 76-2-402(3)(a).

So it looks like, around here, If I reasonably perceive a threat I can actually tell the guy I have it I can show my firearm.

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He was making verbal threats. You are making visual threat. If he takes it as a deadly threat he could try to harm you in a way so you can’t use your weapon. As far as your question goes, it is up to the judge. Best to play it smart and not make threats.

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perhaps I should have pointed out I live in Nevada…

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If you were to follow me to my house and run your yap…you just f…d up.

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The way I see it, guns are for saving lives. If one thinks they are going to save someone’s life by showing them there gun than be my guest. I can’t think of any situation that can happen except if one is teaching someone else how to safely use one. I would not show my gun to a threat or potential threat unless I intended to fire it.

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You really don’t think
“I have a gun and I will shoot you!!”
can ever change the mind of an attacker?

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The trigger for “showing” your gun is when your brain tells you that you need to SHOOT your gun. If this action stops a crime from happening that decision is on the BG, not you and then YOU can act accordingly. but between those two things stand just a few lbs of trigger pull and less than 1.5 seconds in my case, so the bad guy better hurry considering his options RIGHT NOW.

I have first hand knowledge of a case where pointing a gun at a BG stopped a deadly criminal action. The good guy didn’t call the USCCA to report the incident and that’s just DUMB!!!

He got ARRESTED and the local prosecutor (super pro-gun state, worthless liberal Democrat city government) was all over this case soliciting everyone including the person that committed the criminal act just to get the gun owner, who by the way was an upstanding citizen with an impeccable reputation in his community. He gave a statement (REALLY DUMB) and he was immediately incarcerated. There were 14 witnesses ready to back up his story, they interviewed none.

It took over $30,000 of his insurance money (including hiring national level expert witnesses) to show the prosecutor that the insurance benefit would go to the ends of the earth to make sure the member didn’t go to jail and the prosecutor ultimately dropped the case NOT because he didn’t want to put an innocent man in jail for defending himself, but because he knew we were going to take this one to the courts, the news papers, TV and hell itself to make sure he lost his ridiculous case.

At the end of the ordeal I asked the defense attorney two very direct questions:

1- "Did you have ANY pushback from the insurance when you asked to provide sufficient funds for this case’s defense. His answer, "NO, as a matter of fact the night it happened and he was contacted he asked the insurance person for a VERY healthy retainer because he knew what he was up against. He said there were ZERO questions and the money was in his firm’s account next morning and he was actually surprised how fast they were on this.

2 - “Would your client have been better off just shooting the BG when he decide his life was in mortal danger?” and he said, “Yes”. He said he would have had him home that night.

Every lawyer I have worked with that has had any experience with the USCCA benefit has told me that they do not answer the phone in the middle of the night UNLESS it’s a USCCA number because they know there is zero doubt they will get paid. And that’s just savvy business in their part.

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Yes of course it can. Just wearing a police uniform and open carrying is enough to stop most would be attackers. It’s when you intentionally show your gun when it gets complicated. It doesn’t give the impression one is trying to de-escalate.

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You need a rolling laugh emoji after that statement because it is nowhere near truth and I’m thinking (hoping) it’s sarcasm.

Years ago it did…

But today?

Ask the NYC (or substitute ANY Democrat run city big or small) Police how well it’s working for them.

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I know what you mean. The thing is when a crime is stopped one doesn’t hear about it because it never happened.:joy::joy:

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Short answer, yes.

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hope an attorney can respond if possible…

and yes I understand it depends on the state and location within the state so…

please advise…

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These days if anyone sees just the grip they can say they felt threatened.

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[quote=“OldDude49, post:1, topic:107117”]
(doesn’t produce it or show it BTW)
[/quote]

Unless displayed I would walk away after allowing ample time for ijit to “clarify” his intentions. In the meantime I would be aggressively staging my draw while keeping my weapon concealed as ijit thinks over the possibility of his last moments remaining on this earth.

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Robert1246, absolutely what I’m thinking since I’m reading this thread.

  1. if I’m displaying/pulling my gun, it’s because I’m about to use it. At the very least, it’s coming out and acquire my target and wether I pull the trigger or not depends on the situation. So I would not display or mention my weapon if I don’t intend to use it.
  2. carrying conceal gives a decisive tactical advantage against an attacker. If you display or mention your firearm before you’re actually ready to use it, you lost that concealment advantage.

My take is situation awareness, extract yourself from dangerous situations and the last resort is pulling it without warning, acquire and be ready to suppress the threat.

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^^^^^^^^
image

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I asked this in another thread and pretty much received the same answers.

I maintain that under specific conditions, BEFORE reaching the kill-or-be-killed stage, showing your weapon to a threatening (not assaulting) individual who claims to have a weapon IS a form of de-escalation. By showing the assailant that you are equipped and prepared to defend yourself you may open up a moment of time in which he can reconsider his intentions. That is at least an opportunity for de-escalation.

Even if you disagree with everything I say, remember this:

ONLY THE AGGRESSOR CAN DE-ESCALATE!! YOU CAN"T!!

As the target all you can do is make the suggestion, hope for the best, and hope/believe you’re prepared for the worst. The sticky bit is that the aggressor has to agree to the suggestion.

Once the balloon goes up, you have a certain (varying) amount of control over only four choices: Run, Hide, Fight, Die. That’s it.

Let me throw in a twist. He’s the scene: Say you’re walking to your car. A man steps out of the dark, opens his jacket to show a weapon in his waistband (he doesn’t actually draw) and says something like “Gimme your wallet or I f*ck you up.” You say, “OK. Take it easy.” Then you make like you’re reaching for your wallet but you actually draw your weapon and take aim.

Here’s the decision point----Sure, you could fire to stop the threat and from a legal standpoint you MAY be OK. But what if you take a breath and say something like, “I don’t want to shoot you. How about we both just walk away?” Technically I may be guilty of ‘brandishing’, but just as technically I may have just saved one or two lives.

My philosophy, admittedly untested, is to fire only if absolutely necessary. If there is an opportunity to create some space between drawing and firing, space the assailant can use to change course, I feel morally bound to try to create that space. He can walk away or he can draw, but it’s his choice to de-escalate or not. If he draws, then I can fire.

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