My kids all loved their school resource officer. One of my sons managed to put his car in a ditch not too far from school and had to deal with the resource officer for that. They knew my boys on a first name basis because of their cars
I don’t doubt there were those students who didn’t like the resource officer - they were the ones causing/getting into trouble. Mine got into trouble with their cars, but knew it was their own fault and handled it as such. They had a great relationship with the officer.
Im not saying all SRO/student discourse is a negative thing. Like I said, I’ve been researching. There are snippets of news articles here and there where kids didn’t step forward because they are being raised not to trust the police. This is a whole other area in itself, but it does overlap with this discussion so I only mention it.
These security officers could very well be “reserve” LEOs for their local department too. I just think putting a full officer into a school and limiting their jurisdiction to that school for 9 months out of the year is wasting resources. I understand it can also be a good outreach program, but kids being raised not to trust the police aren’t going to be reached by it.
I’m for teachers and others being able to carry at school, and here in Florida the legislature almost did that this session, i say almost because they gave each individual school board the ability to ok or deny that to teacher, this is a state that has a firearm preemption law saying no one has the authority but the state to make firearm laws, but then give a county school board that authority. Go figure, only in the Gunshine state.
“Should teachers be armed?”
This is too much of a blanket question. It depends entirely on the teacher and their capabilities. Should they be able to prove their qualifications and then be allowed to carry within the school? Absolutely!
“If yes, open or concealed?”
This also depends on the environment. In most situations they should remain concealed. However, if standing a post, then I’d rather have it in the open.
The issue of school shootings will not be solved by simply arming teachers. What we SHOULD be addressing is WHY / HOW the concept of a “soft target” exists in the first place. Any establishment – be it private or public – which prohibits firearms while simultaneously encouraging defenseless people to assemble, is knowingly creating the hazard. Furthermore, in my opinion, any PARENT who understands these parameters and either allows or requires their child to appear in this environment IS CULPABLE of whatever horrible situation presents itself. WE ALL have the CHOICE of standing our ground, and insisting our child is either PROTECTED, or home schooling them.
COMMON KNOWLEDGE exists on HOW to properly secure a building and protect the occupants. Such precautions exist in countless government facilities. First, prevent vehicles and pedestrians from accessing the property without going through a properly manned gate. Second, secure each point of access, to the building itself, with properly trained and equipped security personnel. Third, allow any properly licensed and trained person to carry while on school property. In short, harden the building and property to remove the possibility of a soft target being created.
I’ll say it again: every parent DECIDES if they will allow their child to exist in these locations.
Fred you have some good points and some mot so good. First, we use the word “teacher” in the generic sense. Inside every school there are multiple positions, teachers, administrators, counselors, nurses, paraprofessionals, cooks, administrative staff and volunteers. Teachers are tied to their students. They have a duty to stay with them no matter what is happening. We, teachers, take that responsibility very seriously. Others are not tied to a particular group of students and have more freedom to move toward trouble when it occurs. These people are the ones who need to be trained and armed first. Second. schools across the nation have hardened their facilities while at the same time trying not to turn them into prisons. We dont advertise what we’ve done for obvious reasons. Third, I shudder at the idea of allowing anyone with a permit to carry into a school. I’ve seen parents react emotionally during several serious incidents; one involving a firearm the other a knife. Fourth, most schools equip numerous staff with panic buttons that go directly to local law enforcement. They respond immediately and are looking for someone with a gun and you know what happens next. I fear there would be several innocent gun owners who end up looking like swiss cheese. Finally, having armed security is great so long as their not the typical mall cop type i.e. all uniform and no training.
I’ve trained three to fire times each year since Columbine with a very dedicated company. My school has a well developed plan that includes everyone; staff, bus drivers, cooks, teachers and students. However, most school shootings involve internal threats (students). We know who these students are but due to federal laws we are unable to remove them. So all the security on the world wont stop Johnny from shooting up his class. If the teacher is armed I’m sure teacher gets the first round, prob6when their back is turned.
I’m all for the right to bear arms. I’ve carried professionally and as a private citizen for 40 years. I’ve even carried at school as a teacher. Sadly, I see lots of arguments for arming everyone who can pass a CCW class. I disagree vemintely!
School shootings are part of our lives now. Training, being able to lock down and secure a classroom, lunch room, gym office etc in seconds and isolating a shooter to a small area can do more to prevent casualties than anything.
I recommend that parents attend the next active shooter training event that their school has. It will be a great educational experience.
@Michael7, we’re talking the same language. I personally do not think having a CCW equates to “properly trained.” In no way should an emotional soccer mom be carrying while she goes to pickup Jimmy… unless she has been properly trained… active shooter, first responder, CAR, etc.
What about on private property, @Sheepdog556? Should our right to carry outweigh the property owners rights for their property?
I agree to a point. Here is where I differ. If I am “there”, where ever that is, it is NOT a gun free zone. Now, the exception for me is Indiana law. Signs have no rule of law here. Other than school, airport (past security check) and specific government buildings, my gun is on me. If you are a private business owner and NOTICE I am conceal carrying, and ask me to leave I will GLADLY leave and probably let my other 2A friends know so they dont visi… (offend) that business owner. This is a normal part of my EDC and that is EXACTLY what it is…my EDC.
FredL, I think training is great it increases anyone’s chances of survival, but does it diminish the original intent of 2A, the founders knew not everyone would have the same training, but they isolated no one out by establishing any level of training.
@ChrisH and @Sheepdog556 - If there are no signs or the signs do not hold the weight of the law, I can understand that. However, where the signs hold the weight of the law and I could be risking my right to carry, I’d just avoid those businesses all together. Now if it was private property and not a business at all (neighbor, friend, etc.) I’d respect the owners wishes.
And what drives these students to go on the shooting rampages. IMO, ever since the schools put in the zero tolerance for bullying, the bullying has gotten worse and the victim of bullying receives a worse punishment than the bully in a lot of cases.
I’ll agree with you to an extent on this one, @FredL . Some do not have a choice to home school. Think of the single mom who has no family support and is working two jobs to support her kids. She really doesn’t have the option to home school.
Fred I think you are on the right track and you’ve obviously given this much thought. You6point about parents is especially relevant. Some schools still have the “this won’t happen here” mentality. Those parents need to show up at the very next board meeting and demand that the district implement proven security actions.
You hit the nail on the head. The bullying is worse because now the kids being bullied are subject to the same punishment as the bully, or worse punishment. I will share what happened to my boy.
My kids have the longest bus ride in their school (hour and a half), so sometimes they sleep on the bus. While my boy was sleeping another grabbed him by the hair and slammed his head into the window, twice. Now of course he woke up screaming and crying, he was about 7 at the time.
The kid who did it was given 3 days in school suspension. My boy was given 5 days out of school because “his screaming could have caused the driver to roll the bus.”
Right there is how schools handle bullying. I will not go into details about the meeting I had with the other boys parent.
No kidding. My son got in an altercation in the 2nd grade. After being shoved twice, and each time telling the other boy to stop, he had enough. 3rd shove, my kid came up swinging, and gave the other boy a bloody nose and black eye. They both got recess detention for 3 days. Now, the big factor here, the other boy, along with all the others don’t mess with my kid. They know there’s a bloody nose and black in it for them. Is it fair my son got detention, nope. Did he get his point across, absolutely! Continuing to teach our kids to stand up for themselves and others is the right thing to do.
No more gun free zones is the way to go. Let all legal law abiding gun owners take care of their own defense, teachers included. Sorry for getting off topic.
Actually that brings up an interesting question about the topic and teacher’s mindsets. Would the teachers you know (not teachers in general) be able to shoot to defend the lives of their students? Especially if the threat was a student they knew…
Dawn you ask a good question. The answer from my perspective as a teacher is yes. As I stated in an earlier post, we know the kids who end up being shooters. We watch them closely and any professionally trained, armed teacher would do their job. I train with a number of teachers who are armed while at work. All receive training far beyond what most LEOs receive. While they do not have the day to day bad guy encounters LEOs face they are very proficient in firearms use during high stress situations.
The bullying issue is both frustrating and complex. I dont know about your particular situation but I have watched hours and hours of bus, classroom and hallway videos that often show just the opposite of what the child tells their parent. If school administrators do not properly handle the situation the parent has the obligation to take the matter to the school board. This must occur in closed session and kept private by federal law.
One more observation about parents who loose their cool and go on experlative laced rants aimed at school personal. We WILL call the police and have you removed because you are a threat to us. I really wonder if that type of person should be allowed to be armed. These frequent emotional encounters are the reason I maintain that no one, other than those authorized by the school boards, should be allowed to carry on school grounds. I know this opinion won’t be popular but I’ve got 20+ years of dealing with all kinds of school related incidents. Just trying to keep everyone safe.