Ammunition anomaly?

After taking my S&W M&P 9 M2.0 along as my EDC on an exercise hike of 4 miles or so, I stopped for some range training on the way home. I loaded three17R mags with Fiocchi 115 grain FMJ range ammo. The first mag was hitting within an inch or two of POA, as usual for this pistol. When I used the slingshot method to chamber the 2ng mag, the slide froze about 1/4 to 3/8 inches from battery, couldn’t tap it forward or pull it back. I dropped the mag and consulted the range officer for help. He took it to the gunsmith’s shop. They could tell the extractor had ahold of the round, trigger not reset or neutralized. So in a three armed operation they held the slide back and safely tapped a dowel into the barrel, freeing the round and action. Micrometer examination revealed the brass case was measurably outsized by a half mm or so, and couldn’t enter the chamber, just stuck upon entry by the force of the slingshot spring.
The rest of that same ammo fired normally, as did followup mags of Federal 115 &124 grain FMJs and Hornady defensive JHPs.
What terms describe this FTF best? Not a “squib” , primer failure, light strike? It must be a manufacturing quality control issue? Any stats and opinions on the frequency of this event?

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Description: Out of spec ammo.

I am willing to use Fiocchi for range ammo but don’t have it at the top of my list and have never/hopefully never carry or load their ammo for defensive purposes.

It’s none of the things you listed. If you want to call it something other than “out of spec ammo”, FTRTB or Failure To Return To Battery (caused by ammo) maybe?

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Has that particular round been chambered before? Sometimes, and it seems to be firearm dependent, a round that has been chambered maybe even multiple times will have the bullet pushed back into the case opening up the mouth area of the case.

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That round was Magula-loaded from the box and carried to the range never chambered. Your term “firearm dependent” sounds like you are aware of similar ammo issues. I’ve never had to deal with rounds that just didn’t slide easily into the chamber on my semi-autos, but have had hot cases be hard to eject from rapid fired revolvers. I’m a 2±year newbie to my CC journey, and much of that time has been learning about differences in ammo. That learning curve will go on as needed. Thanks for your knowledgeable reply-KL

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I have only used the Fiocchi range ammo and noticed it seemed cleaner burning than other brands. I’ve gone away from lead-nosed rounds to all FMJ for the same reason. I do have two boxes of Fiocchi JHP’s in different weights that I was considering delegating to defensive carry , but now realize that range time with hollow points could be a better use. A lack of confidence from you will be taken seriously.

That’s an accurate term. Since it was the first round on top of mag #2, a reload, yes it failed to return when the slide was released.

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Went to the range myself last week and brought along some partial boxes of Fiocci. Had a couple of misfeeds (slide not moving all the way forward when loading a fresh round) with the Fiocci but not with the other brands.

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I don’t think I have ever had an issue with Fiocci and it is my go-to for 9mm

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That echoes my experience. Mine was the first in that mag, It didn’t repeat with the rest of those remaining mags, or with the Federal range ammo that followed. Was slide not moving all the way forward middle of a mag? Did it jam there or could you easily extract or tap the slide into battery? This could be an example of pattern recognition and observable reality.

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HI @Keith200 ,
You will have to learn, which ammo works for your firearm (s). Is there a norm or pattern? Not exactly.
9mm ammunition is regulated by SAAMI standard and if you look closely, there is no strict number for each dimension. There is always “permissible error” allowed.

SAAMI

I’m surprised it happened to M&P9 M2.0, which usually eats any ammo… but there is always an exception from every rule…

Whatever happened to the gun it was still typical malfunction - failure to feed, caused by ammo. What was wrong with ammo? Hard to say. Out of specs, missed bad cartridge during quality control? We can only guess.

It wouldn’t be fair to judge the ammo if one round gave an issue.
I personally have been shooting Fiocchi ammo for a long time (over 5K rounds of FMJ) and still have few boxes of Fiocchi HP - never ever experienced malfunctions.

On the other hand - last weekend I brought 2 Staccatos for a class. I was also testing new ammo I bought few days earlier. All went well with C2 and I got a huge issues feeding those rounds in R model. At least 3 times it completely locked the slide and I have to use the other gun to slam the back plate to put it back into the battery.
Hard to tell why - same pistol, just slightly different model - and completely different experience with same ammo.

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That standards drawing with dimensions and tolerances is revealing. I noticed that slight increase in the diameter of the case from the bullet opening back to the edge of the extreme taper before the rim. Even a machine or materials error of 1 - 2/1000 on that cylinder might bind the case in the chamber. I estimated by my M2.0 slide’s jammed location that the case was about halfway into battery.

I agree not to judge the ammo or pistol by this one example. It is important to know how to deal with it. Expert help was just down a corridor at the range. In a home or street defensive situation the A-solution would be a “New York Reload” backup.

In my down time (?) I cam break out the digital micrometer and drop randomly selected rounds into the chambers of field dressed barrels. Learning time without expectations is quality time.

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Never happens with my $500 G19. :wink:

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yeah… that’s why I was surprised it happened to M&P. :wink:

I never expect feeding issues from any of polymer pistols and I’m very picky choosing ammo for Staccatos.
All the more it was weird the new ammo worked fine with C2 and then started jamming in R.
:person_gesturing_ok: :bowing_woman:

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Does the R magazine work in the C?

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No. R is a single stack.
But the issue wasn’t related to the magazines.

R is using 1911 MilSpec magazines, which are sometimes hard to load and extract the first round… however I also got a standard follower magazines for 1911… and the same issue with this ammo.

Anyway… I know it is the ammo causing the problem, but the point is that you never know what to expect… sometimes you may be surprised by the least expected thing.

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Are you referring to C, or C2?

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C, I didn’t know they made a single stack.

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Staccato messed everything up…

Originally there were:
C - single stack
C2 - double stock
R - single stack
P - double stack

Then they started making different models… and these days it’s even more complicated, however every single model is double stack:
CS, C, C2, P, XC, XL.

Magazine from my R worked in old C… but now CS and C are interchangeable.
All others - C2, P, XC and XL can use the same mags (only the small capacity won’t fit the bigger grips).

Yeah… I can hear you… Glocks are less complicated here… :rofl:
Unfortunately Staccato grew up too fast and their pistols are not so great anymore. Demand for these guns is huge so production has to feed the Customers fast…

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Really? The Glock 44 is a .22 :rofl: and
Gen 1 and 5 are almost identical

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Please do not start it… I was really good in math… till the moment I heard about Glocks and its numbering philosophy.

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Late to the conversation here, but FWIW, the only ammo that ever failed to chamber properly and consistently in my Smith 380 EZ was Fiocchi. Every few rounds would hang up going in. I got home and started checking all the details of the case against the standards and against other cartridges I had from other manufacturers like Federal or Hornady. In small ways the Fiocchi was different, including a very slight length difference (maybe .002"), and different angles around the rim. It’s the only ammo out of probably a dozen different brands and type that the gun couldn’t feed with 100% reliability.

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