Amen brother!
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My main interest in picking up sporting clays, aside from having some fun, was to get practice tracking moving targets. I think that is a skill that can translate to other firearms and is hard to practice otherwise. Unless you have a place where you can set up ropes and pulleys or use simunitions or airsoft firearms.
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Makes a good argument for the .45ACP… who wouldn’t want that? 
Reminds me of the movie Johnny Dangerously, reference to the handgun of Joe Piscopo’s character.
It’s an .88 magnum. They made it special for him.
This goes through armor.
Then it goes through the victim…
through the wall, through a tree…
It shoots through schools.
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Enzo,
Agree with your initial post.
Assumptions–it’s a pump shotgun, they haven’t practiced with it much (probably at all).
They will likely get one shot off, potentially short stroke the pump and be at the mercy of whoever they didn’t neutralize.
While it is a great tool in the hands of an experienced shotgunner, giving one (or any gun) to a person who has not learned how to use it effectively and efficiently is a recipe for losing a gunfight.
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A Texas star works well for “moving target tracking” as well.
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Looking at the walls, and no issue with neighbors…I’ll be sticking with the 12 gage for hd with my 00 buck/slug mix
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yup…
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I see some folks are posting videos of why a shotgun is a good self defense weapon. Great! They are!!! Anyone wants to Google and post YouTube examples of folks shooting a shotgun for the first time?
I can train a person proficient enough that they can pick up a handgun and execute a few well placed shots in literally minutes. Same with an AR or even better, a pistol cartridge chambered carbine. Doing the same with a 12ga? Not so much, and many folks will never get past round one before they hand it back.
As I said, awesome weapon in the hands of a well trained and experienced operator. Terrible choice for a first SD/HD gun.
AND every advantage anyone can come up with for a shotgun for HD I can duplicate or surpass with a carbine, especially low wall penetration potential with the right ammo. Plus if it ever came to it, my AR 9mm pistol with red dot optics, light/laser will go into a discrete case with 8 30+ Glock mags loaded with different types of projectiles and I can walk it right into the Mall.
My wife as an accomplished trap shooter. My chances of having her pick up a 12 ga for HD? None, she hates those guns. So again… I sold all my HD shotguns long time ago. But that’s just MY take on the subject.
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There is no one-size-fits-all “best” HD weapon for anyone.
Shotguns and revolvers seem to be the most common things that people give a blanket “just buy one of these and you’ll be fine!” answer without doing any actual digging on whether its a good choice for that person.
IMO a reliable AR or PCC gives a novice shooter the best chance to make good hits in a HD situation. Anything you can shoulder will improve recoil control and accuracy.
The only time I would recommend a shotty for HD is to someone who has a lot of experience with them
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Soo, now having 240 rounds and walking into a mall makes the AR a better home defense weapon? Wtf logic is that? Putting that on a forum anyone can peruse? Brilliant.
Mentioned having a dream about this last night, and using an AR, wishing I used a shotgun…it was the legal ramification. AR equals evil, while even dementia Joe says a couple blasts with a shotgun is muy bueno.
And what’s with it suddenly being “novice shooter” stuff, when we all preach practice 'til proficient, then practice some more. Suddenly, shotguns are getting short stroked(never done or seen that) while loading a mag properly, pulling a skinny black centralized charging handle and making sure the safety is off just comes naturally to the neophyte…yeah, ok.
Rant over, I’m done.
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@Enzo_T 100% agree on first post. I spent time in the Navy and shot 45s, M14 and shot guns. My wife was against guns in the house until last summer with all the craziness.
My only condition was everyone in the house had to be able to use.That included my wife, 20 year old daughter and 10 year old son. My son had shot a 410 with his uncle and was not a fan. My wife and daughter had never shot anything before.
I knew a 9mm handgun was my best option. When my wife and I went to the gun store looking for the Stoeger STR 9 I had researched he first tried to up sell me to a pistol with less for twice the money. I don’t remember the brand but it was not a brand I recognized. My wife was very nervous and when she said it was for home defense and we were trying to keep costs down, he tried to push us to a shotgun. We left with the Stoeger.
I have had the Stoeger for just over a year now and have been to the range many times. Everyone in my family has shot it and to your point I had my wife and daughter hitting the target within minutes.
Since ammo has been freeing up I have been going to the range more. I don’t know the official round count but it has to be between 750 to 1000 rounds through it. 300 of those in the past month. It goes bang every time.
As you and others have said…people need to shoot what they are comfortable with. I know plenty of people that can handle shot guns well, love 1911s, etc. For me and my family, those were not right. I use the pistol as my EDC and we also now have an AR15.
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I agree, I used to consider my shotgun the go to for HD up until a few years ago. I’ve mentioned before since then I’ve shifted to AR 9mm PCCs for each of us for HD.
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Firearms are tools. Just like screwdrivers are. If you only owned a set of Phiilip’s head screwdrivers and no flat head or Torx head screwdrivers, you would be very limited in your ability to fix things that involved other screw heads.
Buy, own and practice with what works for you.
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Under the FWIW heading:
Here is how I view Home Defense. Note: This strictly for me in my location.
-A home break-in is unlikely. There has been only one in the last 12 years in my neighborhood. It happen while the owner was at his wife’s funeral which of course was reported in the obit’s.
-A home invasion is very unlikely. I have never heard of one within a 10 mile radius.
-A riot or protest in the area would likely happen near the University Of Alabama which is 15 miles away as the crow flies. Risk to me virtually none.
Being realistic, I know the odds are in my favor of not facing trouble, but insurance in the form of a firearm is prudent. I also carry lots of insurance for the bad things that can happen even though I don’t think my odds are bad.
Now lets say one of the above should happen to me and I’m faced with a shooting event. I would say I have a better chance of getting struck by lighting than facing any kind of gun ‘battle’. By this I mean the event is going to be over in seconds or minutes. There will be no siege. I won’t be reloading, grabbing different ammo types, etc. I’m the defense, they are the offense. They are not like the police. Time is not on their side. They don’t want to wait for me to get help. I do not remember the last time I read about a extended gun battle in these events, anywhere.
So, in summary should the unthinkable happen to me and I have to use a firearm then the worry over home property damage caused by my defense is a problem not even on my radar. I want it over and done as quickly as possible. This is why I keep a shotgun out (and some handguns) but not a AR type weapon. I do the things to give myself a edge. I use security devices, have a dog that hears everything and warns me, I know where family members are, I have good reflex shooting skills. Mostly I’m relaxed because I don’t believe it will happen to me, but I am reasonably prepared if it does. This is what works for me.
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I’ll play Devil’s Advocate, why not?
Before I owned my first pistol, my HD firearm was a SxS 12 gauge.
That’s right, two shots.
It’s what I had for hunting, was well practiced and I had total confidence with it.
I even practiced reloads which can be done quicker than most would think if you know what you’re doing.
Would I go back to a shotgun for HD? Not unless forced to (I’m in CA after all) however my preference is for handguns
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There really is no why not. If that’s what you have then by all means at least try to be proficient with it and carry on.
But again the discussion should be, but why? Are there better choices for most folks? Yes. Is it optimal in most situations? Nope.
I believe there are far better choices available today to most folks and I believe pushing bargain, bare bones pump 12ga guns onto untrained shooters and selling them as a one-solution, overly-simplistic panacea is a terrible disservice to these folks that trust the person behind the counter.
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I’m a practical guy and had to sell a few firearms because they don’t serve a or have outlived their purpose.
I’d consider a Hi-Point carbine before a shotgun for HD.
But, that AR-style VR80 from RIA…
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I completely agree that pushing cheap pumps as an over simplistic panacea is a disservice.
A handgun is easier to secure, however a shotgun (or perhaps a .22 rifle) may be easier for a person to legally procure depending on the jurisdiction and a braced pistol, or AR style anything may be verboten, depending.
This shouldn’t be construed that a shotgun is less than optimal for HD.
They are clumsy indoors, but the same could be said about all long guns.
Shotguns have long been part and parcel of a LEO’s tool kit and while LEOs receive sound training, in my experience LEO’s don’t receive much range time at all their shotguns.
There isn’t too much to learn now that they aren’t officially permitted for riot dispersal (there were quite a few tricks to learn for effectively breaking up a riot with a shotgun and sweeping an alley)
What is more critical is dealing with recoil—the smaller frame the shooter, the more punishing it will be unless the shooter learns how to make friends with the gun
And it can be done. Dove hunters think nothing of launching a few hundred cartridges before lunchtime and enjoy it. The motivating factor for HD is you want to protect your family, so you learn how to correctly shoot the thing.
Military style rifles often replace the shotgun in cruisers these days, or at least add to the firepower with some active shooter scenarios where a rifle often is the best tool for the job.
I’ll offer this why in the shotgun’s defense:
The image presented by homeowner with a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun does attract the attention of a thief, not unlike a laser only the thief is unlikely to see a laser while a shotgun is unmistakable. In that capacity it would be valuable for de-escalating an unpleasant situation.
Could the same be said about a braced pistol ? Perhaps, but every perp knows what a shotgun looks like and can do because of movies and TV. A braced pistol maybe not so much.
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