A shotgun for HD/SD.... Why?

Welcome to the Community Melissa. It really boils down to what works for you.

Stay safe!

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Continuing to play Devil’s Advocate, I’ll add this FWIW:
An empty AR make a lousy club especially compared to a wood stocked pump action :rofl:

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I have a 12 ga 590 m for my door greater , I don’t think anything quite says wrong house like 00 buck but only if time permits, which is always an unknown . So I keep my xd 45 service next to me with 13 rounds of yummy hst goodness and a loaded ar just in case :wink:

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If you are addressing me I’ll try to hit a few of your points, and sorry for the longish response but I think it’s important:

First, I do reload, over 30 years experience doing so. I understand that SOME .223/5.56 bullets will go through metal plates. MOST OTHERS like the 45gr class hollow points pretty much disintegrate on impact and if the rifling twist of your gun is fast enough some of the lighter bullets will ACTUALLY vaporize on the way to the target. So your generalization of the performance/penetration of the .223/5.56 is not exactly on point. And, with an AR I can have as many mags as I need loaded with ammo tipped with bullets tailored for different jobs and I’m able to switch from one to another in less than a second. Right now I have probably more than 12 different .223/5.56 types of rounds in my personal stash running all the way from frangible 45gr HPs to 77gr PSPs for long range and hunting use. OPTIONS are great!

On the other hand 00 buck is 00 buck any way you look at it and it will blow through several layers of dry wall and there is no tailoring the load to anything but what it does well, create multiple wound channels with a single trigger pull, as long as you hit an actual body.

It also does not take ME 30 rounds to accomplish anything, In all my decades as a hunter it has never taken me more than one shot to put anything down. But, in a deadly force encounter it will take what it will take to put down a threat, and I’d rather have a lot of ammo and not need it than stand in place while feverishly trying to re-load a shotgun after 3 rounds (normal capacity of a budget hunting pump gun).

And your assumption that it’s “a bad guy” is again a generalization that in MANY cases is not true. Plenty of cases out there of home invasions by multiple individuals, all you have to do is look. And one last thing, most folks that don’t know any better make an assumption that they will be the only ones shooting, and that is foolish. A Self Defense encounter is an exchange of deadly force. A gun is NOT a bullet proof shield and folks will very likely be shooting at you, maybe even before you get your hands on your gun! So one lonely gunman enters your house with a Glock 17 and starts spraying 9mm rounds in your direction making you shoot on the run seeking cover, how good do we feel about those 3 rounds of buckshot right now?

"Well one thing is for certain when your awakened from a sound sleep at 0200 hours, youre still groggy and maybe a bit fuzzy, you don’t need to be right on the bullseye to stop the threat with 00 buckshot. And you sure ad heck don’t need 30 rounds to compensate for your misses."

When I wake up at ANY time from a sound sleep I wake up like I just drank 5 cups of coffee, I’m neither groggy or fuzzy and I do not need to compensate for misses, sorry if you do. And by the way 000 shot, even from a cylinder bore at room distances barely opens up. The pattern is almost like a single projectile. You still need to aim and be accurate. Most folks are just too happy with a brass bead front sight that is basically useless indoors and in the dark. In any case, this “fact” that makes folks believe that shotguns are room sweepers by just pointing them is a horrible myth perpetuated by folks that don’t know better.

Last, I agree with you, everyone has the right to be happy with what they pick and yet you just tried to “trash” the AR I proposed, using absolutely wrong data.

But it’s all good.

This thread was posted to make people “THINK” and allow folks to discuss options and listen to perspectives from others that agree and disagree so they can evaluate their tools/strategy and then either cement their belief they are correct or fine tune those tools and strategy based on whet they learn.

Thanks for contributing.

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I LOVE OPTIONS!!! They are both excellent tools and you get to pick the one that makes sense for the situation at hand. Good job!

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This reminds me of the other thread advising not to keep a gun on the nightstand because…

Nothing effectively wakes me up better than a bump in the night.

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a common saying I was tought as a child was " the only purpose of a hand gun is to be able to fight your way to a long gun". with that in mind its not completely ruling out the usefulness of a hand gun. There are definite uses for them ( concealed carry, back up, etc.) but I feel the majority of SD/HD situations take place in densely populated areas. a large portion of gun owners are under trained and inexperienced especially when it comes to CQB.

so utilizing a gun that has a high potential to travel long distances is probably not the best idea I would think. we are already in a stressfull situation if we have to defend ourselves and trying to worry about “whats beyond” is probably the last thing on the majority of peoples minds.

In reality training is essential! not only initial but CONTINUAL training…

however unruly and hard to control recoil a shotgun is. In a densely populated situation (apartments, condos, housing developments, etc) would this not be the best option for someone who refuses to get additional training?

using slugs is essentialy the same as a a rifle / hand gun and has the potential to travel through walls. so unless there is a high level of training IMO highly not recommended.

for the theory of needing slugs etc to defend against body armor… without training unless there is extreme luck on the initial shot the chances of survival is very minimal at that point.

so I find myself coming back to training… any option is viable depending on the level of training and expertise but for under trained inexperienced gun owners I feel a shotgun with a shorter HD barrel would be optimal when using a combination of different shot weights… its not a 100% gaurantee but probably gives the best odds of protecting them

any thoughts!?

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Absolutely! Training, a loooooooong hard think about your personal situation, AND constantly reassessing your tools. NOT just the advice of the gun counter dude by itself. What I originally posted was the reasons why a shotgun made no sense for ME! I wanted to hear why it makes sense or not to others. Hey maybe someone would point something I have not thought of but so far, I’m good.

And BTW years ago I had a HD shotgun. But then the short ARs came out and now the super short braced pistols in pistol calibers are awesome! My first 9mm AR a long time ago was highly unreliable so it was never a good choice for HD/SD. The now one I got last year will run like an old Singer sawing machine with anything I feed it! Winner!

I just don’t think that generic thinking is the best answer for everyone… as you can see some wake up like zombies while others are immediately sharp. Some have kids in the house, others have trained folks to back them up. If you live in an apartment with paper thin walls your parameters are different that a person living in a stone farmhouse in the middle of 200 acres.

Generalizations and generic solutions fit very few and as I said before I’m good if some folks like the “one-size-fits-all” t-shirt. I like my clothes to fit me.

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This just happened last year and should put a little light on penetration of a 223, my neighbors where shooting at there home at a old car and one of the bullets missed. My wife and I where outside when we heard a crack. Didn’t know what it was until I went inside my double wide home and found sheetrock every where. The bullet passed thru the hard bord outside, 5 walls inside, my carhart coat, exit last wall hit my sons rops on his tractor and ricochet thru my carport. I called police, they sent detective out found the shooters. They where 165 yards from my house. 223 not penetrating is very under rated. 55 fmj used.

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I’ve shot 5.56 FMJ’s at 1/4" steel. the whole was so neat it looked like I drilled it. The plate never even moved. I’ve also shot a deer in the head with a .223 45gr hollow point. The round never exited, deer dead right where it stood. It’s not the round. It’s the bullet construction and speed that determines penetration…

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Welcome to the family brother @Stuart6 and thank God nothing happened. It could’ve been worse.

After years of shooting a shotgun your still aiming & you don’t realize it any more. Even shooting slugs they just go where their supposed to. Actually kind of odd compared to rifle or pistol.

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Yes the good Lord was looking over us that day, the bullet passed right thru my grandsons room, but he was not home. The detective brought the 2 young men to my house and I showed them what happened. Both boys broke down after seeing it. The detective ask if I wanted to charge them with reckless indangerment of a home and I looked at boys and said no. They learned the hard way that could have been a lot worse. Oh,And I forgot to mention that the bullet tumbled after the first wall. 223 in my opinion"only" is not a good home defense firearm due to over penetration with most loads. Short barreled shotgun is a good choice with the right loads. Thank y’all for the privilege to share.

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William220

I get that you feel a bit more comfortable with a lack of home invasions in your area and that you are somewhat isolated. Read Truman Capotes " In Cold Blood" . You won’t feel quite so isolated.

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I’m ok with saying not to keep your weapon on a nightstand but I keep mind in the drawer in the night stand next to the bed. The reason it is in the drawer is because I have my reading glasses. A very powerful flashlight and a few other things up there. But the Canik is positioned right where I can grab it as soon as I open the drawer. I have zero issues waking up immediately and reacting as for my 30 plus years in LE I was on call for emergency callouts and being woken in the middle of the night is easy for me. But I do know friends/family members who should keep their weapon maybe two neighborhoods over from what I’ve seen and heard.

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I personally like my DP-12 Shot gun, It make a grate noise when I pump in two round and turn on light and laser and red dot scopes, just the locking it a ready mode. it is 14 rounds, two barrels, both slugs and shots.

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Yup. I come to life like someone just stabbed me in the heart with a basketball pump full of pure adrenaline.
I’ll crash later.

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Mike, are you referring to >223/5.56 FMJ or shallow points.

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@Barry37 I think your question is directed to @Mike164 who I had quoted in my response.

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Shamrock, thanks for this heads up. If so, my apology to you Dave.

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