The problem is there have been more than a few cases where the people proven guilty turned out to be innocent.
Because of that I have read that it cost more to go through all the legal processes and appeals than it does to just jail them for life. Which has the added advantage of being reversible when we get it wrong.
There are some pretty horrible jobs out there that no one really wants to do. I think the threat of having to spend decades doing those might deter some as much if not more than the threat of death.
Though I think most criminals are not deterred about the consequences of getting caught while or after they have committed a crime. Most see what they want and go for it. The bigger deterrence for them is the threat of a low probability of succeeding with their crime. Which is why we need more people to be vigilant, trained and properly equipped if we truly want to stop crimes from happening. Punishment after the fact is a pretty poor deterrent.
I don’t think we need anymore white collar crime resort prisons. We just need to start forcing the justice system to convict all these people for their crimes and throw them in the regular old prisons with the rest of the common criminals.
I’d be okay with this for violent crime, except taking the firearm away for a “period of time” seems arbitrary. Which reminds my of the topic “Should a criminal record be expunged?” (I say no, a record is a “record”)
This is the hairy part of the argument in my opinion. If you have served a sentence, (Which, in my opinion, should be unpleasant enough that a person would not want to go back) is that not already a sufficient “Period of time”, or how would you suggest “monitoring” this persons “earn it back” period? I feel the government should not have to provide extra resources to monitor every loser’s firearm worthiness AFTER they serve their sentence.
I agree we are not infringing on their rights if they have broken the “civil contract” of following the law, but once their sentence has been served, have they not “paid their debt” to the civil contract? My thought is, if they do yet another crime, they don’t get a third chance.
You would think that, but it is certainly not the case. Isn’t it already the case that we use resources to police parolees, yet the rest of us must suffer the consequences of being firearm owners?
How do you equitably punish BEFORE the fact?
Punishment is for DOING a deed, not because we think a deed will be committed.
How do you deter evil intent?
I think we’re getting a little off topic. Probably my fault for using it as an example, but we could argue about felons all day long, and that’s not the original question.
This is one of the best threads I’ve seen here on this platform. Obviously no simple answer. I think one of my concerns is the abuse of most laws and “due process” end up with. One only need look at 1500+ praying grandmas getting multi year sentences for taking a selfie while repeat violent thugs get released with no bail and then plead down to lesser crimes. Until integrity is restored in our “justice” system, I’m hesitant to condone either path of taking or restoring 2A rights.
I don’t think we’re off topic at all. The second amendment says our right to bear arms shall not be infringed, yet it takes place every day. The question is, WHEN should this right actually NOT APPLY. It should not apply ONLY when citizens (and residents of other countries who visit or reside here) waive the civil contract to follow the laws of this Country (Of which, the 2nd amendment is one of those laws.) In ALL other cases, there should be no exclusions.
Yes Sir, Violent repeat Criminals, Hardcore Bangers and Offenders
(I know what you are doing Brother—I am NOT talking about Gunners
who drive drunk, or get into a Bar fight. I am SPECIFICLY speaking about the recidivists,
The CAREER CRIMINAL who only knows about causing/inflicting PAIN and SUFFERING on everyday Innocents.
Yes, the term I mention is prolly ‘Arbitrary’ This is for Greater minds than mine to hash out. Maybe the Supreme Court gets off heir collective asses and gets this hammered out.
NO RECORDS should be EXPUNGED! You did the Crime it’s on record forever (unless of course you were railroaded like the ‘J6’ers’ then the Illegal Prosecuters and Liars should let these Innocent Protestors out of their cells and they should take their place.
The only period of time before reinstatement of Gun rights should be persuant to their crime. Say a year, If they don’t reoffend they get it back. Hardcore Violent Offenders never go to an LGS to buy their Gats. If they are once again miraculously caught then it’s Prison for life (or the Death Penalty)
THE DEATH PENALTY WORKS! Nobody has EVER REOFFENDED!
This is prolly the truest statement ever! The folk’s we are talking about aren’t the poor shlub down on his luck, Lost his job, has a family to house and feed and decides to take a ‘Matel plastic toy’ into a Liquor store out of desperation. This is the Repeat offender that has ZERO problem sticking a GAT in the face of a pimply faced ‘sandwich artist’ and threatening to blow their head off!, the same Scum that pushes an elderly lady down the stairs for her purse.
PAROLE systems aren’t working, ADD more Parole officers if you feel the need to ‘monitor’ them.
FAIR ENOUGH? I’m not trying to give a Parking meter thief the Death Penalty
Convict a CITIZEN who 'Made a serious mistake out of desperation
or
Imprison a Gunner who defended themselves or got scared after being mugged and unloaded an entire mag into the muggers center mass (Bravo, on this one!)
I don’t disagree. I just think that disarming felons is just one way we use common sense that’s not spelled out in the 2A. So, as for the gun grabbers using common sense in their efforts (yes, I know they’re stretching way too much), in what instance should we possibly allow any of their common sense requests? And, I understand your answer: never.
We’re straight like six O’clock then!
Short of an amendment to the 2nd amendment, their arguments are null and void as soon as they attempt to usurp the Constitution.
I’ll give you another example, but please don’t start a tangent on this one either LOL. I was at the range over the weekend and one of the workers and I got in a discussion regarding “idiots.” He said we should require everyone to get training before obtaining a firearm. He says this as he’s seen a lot of people that shouldn’t be operating a firearm. On one side I can’t disagree with him, but on the other I think it’s an infringement. So, again, common sense dictates that someone operating a firearm should have some minimal training beforehand. That would side with all the laws requiring training/permits.
Instead of common sense, I think you are asking what “well regulated” means. Those are the words of the 2A. Does it simply mean “well trained”. Or, while there are no more state militias, would the 2A imply that a person be qualifed or eligible to be a member of the well reguated militia, if there were one?
I’m not talking about building ‘Pickle ball courts’ and the Prisoners wear Nike’s and wear Rolex’s on the courts Brother.
These Politicians are bent on remaking America and not in a positive way. They are enriching themselves (all practically MILLIONAIRES) when they are supposed to be working for us and not destroying our rights and Disarming us so their Chinese Brethren can waltz in here an make US an Annex of the CCP!.
Don’t be Ridiculous man!
I AM TALKING ABOUT ROUNDING THESE SELF SERVING CRIMINALS AND SHIPPING THEM OFF TO THEIR FINAL DESTINATION EITHER GUAM or GITMO. Military Tribunals, Sentencing and
if CONVICTED DEATH!
There is only so much SH** our Founding Fathers ate before they decided ‘DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR’ and Death is preferable to heavy handed Tyrannical British rule!
Folk’s have to seriously wake up now! before these people get another puppet installed here.
We already know Tampon Tim is a Full Fledged Communist!
We KNOW Kamala has bought in to Socialist Ideologies!
This is not me over reacting because Trump may not win.
HE HAS TO WIN! or we, and our 2a rights will die alongside each other.
WAKE THE F**K up AMERICA! THE LIFE YOU SAVE MAY BE YOUR OWN!
That would certainly qualify as a valid opinion, but the 2nd amendment doesn’t require it.
That being said, ANY RESPONSIBLE gun owner should require this for themself.
I am of the age in which I can remember this type of training being offered IN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL, which was (And is) an excellent idea in my opinion.
