Totally agree. It is dangerous.
But we used to live in a free society. If you saw my bedroom as a kid in the sixties, I would probably be considered a felon. Giant posters of rock stars, OMG black light posters, holy crap, the giant marijuana leaf on my REAL denim jacket, G.I. Joe toys, cap guns, water guns, nerf guns I had an arsenal. I’m the actual DIVINE CREATOR of ANTIFA at least as far as my parents were concerned back then.
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Combined two threads that were on the same topic. Hopefully the continuity isn’t too terrible! ~Dawn
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Interesting thread. While I agree that, on the surface, this seems absurd, there is a different perspective to consider. Teachers, principals, Resource Officers, school nurses etc. are all mandated reporters. They are required by law to report suspected abuse, or neglect to the authorities. While it was only a BB gun I doubt that was discernable in the ZOOM feed. IMO the system worked. A report was made and investigated and deemed to be nothing. I’m not up on Maryland law. Some states make it illegal for a firearm to be accessible to a minor, others don’t. I would ask that before you call teachers names or suggest that they should be sent to detention you consider what laws they are required to follow. Looking after the health and wellbeing of a child is ALWAYS the right thing to do.
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Your point is well taken. My criticism is directed at the officers, who should understand 4th Amendment protections. This is an issue that needs to be settled by the legislature or the courts. The government can’t require kids to school online and then use it as a way to monitor our homes.
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I understand. For me, I would rather the officers show up vs some Family Services representatives. The officers can identify a BB gun…not so confident in the family services people.
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I don’t disagree. But neither should be able to enter your home without a warrant, and not based on a zoom video.
I understand that to some people, seeing a gun in a house with children is no different than witnessing a murder in progress. But it isn’t, and the law apparently needs to make that distinction.
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The police were investigating a complaint so at that point a warrant wasn’t necessary. The home owner was not required to allow the officers in.
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Totally agree. She must have given them permission to enter without a warrant. I would never do that, too much could go wrong.
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Correct. According to the article, she let the officer in. In retrospect, she would have refused.
I would give the same advice to anyone. I generally want to assist police officers, but too many things can go wrong once you permit them inside.
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New York has a new law that includes
measures making it easier to sue people who call police on others without good reasons
I’m sure it was passed in response to the “Central Park Karen” story last month, but it made me think of the BB Gun story.
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The teacher was performing his/her official role i.e., teaching. Therefore the teacher was required by law to report possible abuse or neglect. The complaint was looked into and dismissed. I know that makes people angry but it is the law.
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That’s great legislation. Should eliminate the idiots that are for red flag laws. Flag me… I’ll sue you.
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Educators who follow the law when reporting could still be sued but it’s a very, very high bar to get over. Reports, even when deemed to be unfounded, as this one was are considered to have been made in “good faith.” An educator is much more in danger of being successfully sued for not reporting. I’m always surprised by the vitriol directed toward teachers on this site. Try walking a mile in their shoes.
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I think we are mixing up teacher’s or cop’s professional obligations, and one’s obligations to provide safety to their family and keep them from abuse
- Limit what anyone can see inside your home
- No warrant - no entry
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I’ve been a teacher, and I haven’t directed any ill will to the teacher here. If I were the principal or the school resource officer, I would have taken the report, looked the teacher dead in the eye, and asked “so what?” Its amazing how easily those two simple words can end so many arguments.
My beef is with the LEOs, at least in the way it’s reported. And ever since this scenario was brought up a month or so back, my stance had been that the courts will need to intervene. If I were a school administrator, I’d try to get ahead of this so my district isn’t the one that the courts use to make an example. The Bill of Rights are not suspended due to COVID.
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To equate having a gun hanging on the wall with the act of “bringing a gun to school” is utterly unreasonable. The two things are not even remotely equal, not in seriousness nor in severity. To express such a position in connection with an apparently unjustified activation of the mandatory reporting system only makes the whole thing worse. Good people get upset when they start to feel they need to fear their doctor, fear their kids teachers, or fear the police that are supposed to protect them. It’s not the ones acting in good faith people are upset about, It’s the ones enjoying the protections of their position who are angry and activist minded , or are irresponsible with their powers and duties, those are the ones that get people upset. Unfortunately, that principal holding an 11 year old up for such a severe judgment in such an irrational manner, only gives greater reason for concern. Even the business of the welfare of children must be done reasonably, and responsibly, it can not be allowed to become an indefensible weapon that can be used with impunity.
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I agree with your statement and the principle certainly muddied the water with that statement. However, the mandated reporter law requires educators who are acting in their official role to report any suspected abuse or neglect. Not everyone is a firearms expert and not all BB guns are made by Ryder. My son has two AirSoft BB guns that are identical to their real counterparts. The teacher’s concern was reasonable and the actions taken by the officers were appropriate. The parent could have refused to allow law enforcement in but that would have just escalated the situation. I don’t see ANY infringement on 2A, other rights. I couldn’t begin to know if the teacher was an activist or a USCCA member for that matter. In my 22 years of teaching I made two mandated reports. Both sets of parents blew their tops, threatened to sue, complain to the school board asking to have me fired. One is in prison now for sexual abuse of a child the other was in desperate need of assistance from social services and received that assistance.
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I was hoping you were wrong, but in a quick check of Maryland laws I found this: “criminal law section 4-104, entitled child’s access to firearms. This law prohibits a person from storing or leaving a loaded firearm in a location where the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised child would gain access to it. A violation of this statute is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $1,000, meaning that this law itself does not carry the possibility of jail time. But often the charge of reckless endangerment accompanies a child access to firearms case, and reckless endangerment does carry jail time.”, and as you say ‘required to report’.
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Good research William! I completely understand the frustration folks have with this type of situation. But as Paul Harvey would say…" and now we know the rest of the story." Have a great day and stay safe.
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I fully recognize the complications in this scenario. But the 4th Amendment isn’t complicated. A government agency (numerous court rulings treat public schools as government agencies) cannot forcibly enter your home without a properly authorized warrant. If a teacher reports a violation in your home based in a Zoom meeting, a court would likely have to toss it, or else rule that schools cannot require students to turn on their video. The state can’t have it both ways.
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