When Faced With a Brave Idiot

Applying the 21 foot rule you drew too early. He wasn’t moving toward you. Lets move on!

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You should not solely rely on a firearm for every situation. In fact, it’s far more likely that you’ll have to deal with a non-lethal threat, so you should always have non-lethal options. De-escalation (verbal judo), situational awareness, empty handed skills, less than lethal EDC items are all things a responsible concealed carrier should have. In this particular situation - holster the gun and bless the drunk with the hot sauce. A good OC spray to the face would be appropriate and usually effective, allowing you to escape and immediately call the police. Always be the first one to call the cops. You could still get charged with assault, but it’ll be a lot easier convincing them that you were the victim if the drunk is still alive and stupid.

Now, it isn’t enough just to carry an OC spray, you have to train with it. Never tell an aggressive person you are going to spray them, it should always be a surprise. You should also expect to get some on you and need to know how to fight through it. It sucks, is painful, but you can fight through it, if you’ve trained with it.

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Hmmm, scenario example in back of ur junky garage? If that’s a description of my garage and condition and this “drunk” is now challenging me, throw junk, pick up defensive material before he does to u. Oh, BTW, he’s already breached the entry to your castle and cmay be a karate black belt hopped up, not known. In my case, where I live, he will be put down quickly as I am quite physically disabled and mobility is included as well as strength to defend. Hack a strong 11 year old girl could probably take me down within a minute. Again, in my case the guy lost his mind bc of his aggressive behavior already trespassing on my castle entry boundary. My choice = self defense, Castle Doctrine, etc. OK, hypothetical situation that can be posed most 100% certainty will or has already happened. I’m also protecting my wife who’s still recovering from Covid-19 we both contracted in mid October and tested clear w/in 2-weeks. Terrible post effects and initial care at a hospital in a larger town about 35 miles from where we live.

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If you think about the Kobayashi Maru, you have to remember that James T. Kirk cheated on it and got through it. Many things in life can not be black and white, sometimes you have to think out of the box!

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My firearm is used as a tool to keep me alive, when he closes the space to where I feel my life is in danger, game on.

My attorney is from the USCCA organization, no worries, next question. :sunglasses:

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There could be a lot of questions, worries, and no insurance coverage if it is determined that you used your firearm without sufficient justification. Best to avoid that game if you can.

Welcome to the community!

Exactly. Kirk didn’t believe in a no win situation. If I die, but my family gets away, I win.

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As others have said, the hypo is a no-win situation.

I wouldn’t allow myself to get into a situation where I had no room to escape.

That said, if I was pressed for an answer, I’d only draw if I had to - in immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death. I’d have to hold off as long as I could while trying to figure a way to get around him.

Anyone can “what if” a situation to death…and this is one of them.

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I think everyone of you are wrong. You need to call a highly qualified counselor/therapist to talk to the guy.

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Their number is 1-800-SOCIAL-WORKER🤦‍♂️
If you can’t get through because every New Yorker is dialing that number daily
You can call 1-800-WTF-RUKIDDING

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image

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:rofl:

I this situation i wouldn’t have drawn in the first place (this particular instructor be damned). The man was clearly intoxicated. He may have been “brave” and intent on attacking me. But the threat in my mind is not immediate, especially with the taunting. I would have tried to get passed him using whatever items, or garbage, may be laying around me as obstacles for him to pass or climb over. Since he’s drunk, his motor skills are probably impaired giving him me plenty of opportunity to escape. Shooting a drunk, unarmed, idiot is not worth the consequence of going to prison or the financial hardship of a legal battle.

Remember to think outside the box. Not every confrontation needs to end in gunfire or blood shed. Sometimes all you have to do is force them to try and overcome an obstacle and just let gravity do the rest.

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It seems to me that pepper spray is a bad idea in this situation. I don’t trust it as a rule, but here, you are in what might as well be an enclosed tunnel. That means that the pepper spray hits you as much if not more than the drunk aggressor.

As bad a choice as this is, the best I can come up with is hoping he really is drunk and running him over.

These are all great points; thanks!

However, a lot of posters are trying to “think around the problem” that I posed. That’s cheating.

please take the lack of escape options as a given; even the most skilled of us at situational awareness can get caught by surprise; we’re all human after all.

So, in simplest terms: Without means of escape, what do you do if someone unarmed is trying to get your weapon from you? (They could be totally sober; I just used the drunk as an example.)

LEOs spend a lot of time practicing handgun-retention skills. The obvious inference is that this scenario is a legitimate concern – not a needlessly convoluted hypothetical. (Yes, LEOs face all kinds of serious dangers and are accordingly better-trained than your average Joe, so they have several non-lethal tools in their toolkits that I do not have.)

If they are legitimately trying to get my weapon from me, not just talking about it (and I did not just escalate the situation by prematurely drawing my firearm on a non imminent threat) then I am assuming that my life is in imminent danger if they get my weapon and I will use whatever force necessary to stop that threat. Assuming my attempts at deescalation fail.

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I couldn’t disagree more. Many here have pointed out how you’ve set up a no-win situation. If you put enough constraints on it, you leave no options, so why don’t you just answer it yourself? It seems you’re simply trying to push everyone into a singularly untenable position: Shoot the PA and deal with the consequences.

We all do our best to make that the is last resort we’ll consider, but I think you’re trying to constrain everyone into making it the only resort.

The solutions people are applying here are far more beneficial to us thinking through real world possibilities, and toward getting the community to think about what they could do to avoid a lethal response, than saying “You must do this, and you can’t do that, so what do you do if all I leave you with is shooting him to save yourself?”

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  1. Never draw your gun unless you feel your life is threatened.

  2. Never assume a drunk smaller man cannot still:

    a.) Kill you with his bare hands

    b.) Disarm you and shoot you with your own gun

    c.) Have a weapon hidden in a spot you cannot see

  3. If someone advances on you after making threats and after ample warnings then shoot, your life is being threatened by a dangerous lunatic.

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I already said what I’d do. I stand by my decision.

A gun is not a magic wand. I’m going to do a quick mental inventory of what I have and try to deescalate as much as possible but I am going to have 911 on the phone and it laying somewhere so it can be recording.