Welcome to Aftermath, a portion of our First Line email newsletter where Attorney Anthony L. DeWitt walks you through a real-life self-defense incident and shares his key takeaways.
The Thug Riders motorcycle club and a rival group were racing down I-4 in Florida when a rider
from the rival club fired at a member of the Thug Riders, hitting him in the back. In response, the
Thug Rider returned fire while still driving down I-4 and hit a woman who was riding behind the
aggressor. Sadly, she was shot in the head and died. The Thug Rider then exited the highway and
called 911 to report the shooting. Surprisingly, he was not charged. On the other hand, the initial
shooter, who was a convicted felon, was charged with felony murder.
How can proper firearms training prepare you for high-pressure scenarios? What are the legal
and ethical considerations for returning fire in a public setting?
The only legal considerations in a self defense scenario that I know of is that you are responsible for every shot you fire. If it were to hit someone that wasn’t involved in the shootout then it could be hello prison for you.
As even they wrote " Surprisingly, he was not charged". I’m sure “Thug-rider” never wanted an innocent hurt, yet as consequence of his decision and actions, she lost her life.
IDK the details. Were the two opposing riders driving in opposite directions? If so, could the wounded driver keep on driving away from the initial shooter? Did ego come into play?
He missed his target. Brings to mind the importance of knowing your backdrop, what’s beside your target, being responsible, and weighing in those risks - is it worth the shot?
More inherit risks when on or in a moving vehicle, other considerations come into play. How accurate is the average person in such conditions like riding a steel horse?
Just because something was legal, does not mean it was ethical.
I’m all for self defense, but were these two rival gangs or two organizations on their way to bible study?
How would that play out in the other 49 states we live in? Do we know the civil case law outcome by her her family?
I would say they were riding on the same side of the road. It would have to be a very good or very lucky shot if they were going in different directions. The guy was shot in the back and the article says they were racing. I would think the Thug Rider then had to fire to the rear, not aiming. Him not being charged is the wrong call, I think. But State Laws differ. I don’t know the numbers, but some states charge the initiator of a crime with everything that happens during the commission of that crime. Civilly, it could be just the opposite. Either way it doesn’t help the innocent woman that died. If I’m correct in my assumption, both could/should still be charged and dealt with in possibly different ways.
Yes sir. Reminds me of the value of education and training on the topic of crossfire. We live with this on our minds.
In the example within this video below. If the victim were also armed, what things can we do in advance to mitigate risks to innocent people behind the perpetrators, should we ever have to fire in defense of our own life?:
In that case and if I was armed, I don’t see a crossfire problem. Personally, if I could draw in time, I would have taken out the first guy as soon as he got out of the car. Then I would start firing at everyone else that was advancing toward me. I agree that shots can be missed and hit someone not involved, but I don’t see any in this video. In just about every circumstance I have seen the perpetrators usually run as soon as the OTHER gun goes off. They don’t want to be there if they don’t completely control the situation. Situational awareness would have been very, very helpful to the victim as would practice if they decided to fight.
Absolutely, I would never want to hurt anyone not involved. I don’t even want to be forced to act, but that is not my decision. I’m not responsible for someone that makes a bad one.
Basic shooting class never prepare you for any dynamic incident. The fact is that you never be prepared for everything. You can assume or try to predict… and that’s it.
Preparation for high pressure scenarios requires more than shooting. Even you know how to shoot, you need mental preparedness and some kind of plan in certain situation.
Is it doable? Yes - attend advance classes, shoot while running, shoot from all possible positions, be timed with every drill and have an Instructor yelling at you, pushing and kicking you while you try to hit 6" steel
Don’t make it a habit to return the fire in a public space. Take cover and then think if returning the fire is safe and make any sense.
Sometimes it may not be optimal conditions when you’re getting shot at. If the Thug gang was under fire, or the defensive shooter reasonably believed there would be more shots fired at him, it’s hard to say if he could get away in time. Secondly, I would say the rival gang shooter holds at least some liability for knowingly putting the poor woman also on his bike in imminent danger.
I remember the Thug Rider biker club incident, it was originally publicly reported by Sheriff Grady Judd. Awesome story example- glad you shared it with everyone but maybe next time have your article designer go to Shutterstock website and buy a better stock photo image, because the Thug Riders were actually not a bunch of old white dudes on Chopper bikes. The Thug Riders were a ghetto-hood biker-boy club which membership was basically made-up of “Pookie & Ray-Ray” types riding on crotch rockets. I figure give your members a more realistic description LoL
I believe the thinking was that had the original shooter been anyone other than a convicted felon, what you said might have happened. But since he was committing two crimes, one by shooting at the other biker and the other by even just having a gun, then the death of the innocent rider is an indirect result of his actions. If he hadn’t fired at all, neither would there have been any counterfire.
I say this having the sum total of my legal education obtained from watching Law & Order, so we both know what my opinion is worth.
