Sure. Some might not agree with too strict of laws, but if we wanna interpret or stay safer legally - one can ask - “Do we ever really know if and when a student or minor is in a school?” Activities, learning, registration, or sports can occur at various days or hours; even summer school or summer ‘activities’ - we can never truly know.
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In the states I have looked into, as I understand it and for purposes of legal carry, a school is a school 24/7/365. That’s why when a police chase ended in the parking lot of a school at 2am during the summer when the school was closed, and the LEOs shot the suspect, it was listed as a “school shooting”. Same for when a drug deal gone wrong ended with shots fired. This happened in the loading dock area of a school building which had been abandoned for five years and recently condemned. You guessed it—“school shooting”!
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There is a long-standing rationale behind this reasoning. A total prohibition is much, much easier to enforce than a ban which allows for some discretion as to when it is applicable, especially when that discretion can be exercised by the person at risk of violating said ban.
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Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and the wealth of information on the subject. I really appreciate that the forum is so well attended and how the differing opinions are stated with such respect for each other with regard to disagreement.
I agree with most that schools exist 24/7/365 (or that we should assume so). So, I guess that it also means that the many churches that use school facilities on Sundays cannot have security teams consisting of armed CCW members, right?
Please know, I’m not trying to stir up controversy, just wondering about things that aren’t explicitly referred to in the law. As much as I have “checked my local listings” and read every word written into law, it sure would be nice to have that clarification written into law rather than our speculation as to what they mean.
Once again, thank you all for your responses.
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That’s an interesting point. Things that make you go hmmmm.
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Unfortunately here in COMMIEFORNICATION school zone is always 24 -7 and you can’t carry there at all.
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“School Zone” is a legal term to outline a protective line that once crossed - it invokes harsh criminal penalties, IE, pedo’s, drug sellers, and the gun free zones. Speed limit reductions as well. Since public schools are funded by taxes, residents can file for permission to use these buildings and rooms, I was allowed to swim in the HS pool after hours, for a small fee, run on the track, etc… However, most schools are indoctrination mills and ran by liberals, so unless you are the grand poobaa of the local Satanic Club you will more than likely get shuffled around, extra papers to fill out and then denied.
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Your welcome. We do as far as I know it is called the second amendment. It is a legal document I think. To me the laws represent things we can’t do. The constitution is our rights of things we can do. I follow my conscience.
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A link to the federal law.
And remember definitions mean things.
And they can hire Leo & many do for sporting events and other activities
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I can understand the concept.
There is a form of burglary (stay after) normal business or operating hours close, hidden from detection so as to avoid the hassle of breaking and entering, and tripping an alarm at that point reducing time to accomplish anything to nil.
Whereas, the stay after emerges after everyone else has left.
So, that in a school they also avoid any check in security screening that might detect a weapon, get them arrested or at least refused entry.
Then having usurped any of that so whatever they want, they load up on merchandise, trip the alarm exciting, and escape prior to any response.
Or, mass shoot as many victims as possible before being stopped.
So, if they cannot get in with a firearm during normal open hours, they cannot hide there until that place reopens to commit any violence that might otherwise be prevented,
At least preventing that type of scenario makes sense to me.
That is why in some more highly secure or sensitive entities / facilities one must both check in and out at security so that they know if anyone did not check out, and search for them…
If they are down due to a medical emergency get them help.
If not maybe arrest them for trespassing, terminate them, and bar them from returning ever.
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School zones aren’t just a CA thing they are a federal thing:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-congress/senate-bill/2070/text
Though along with complying with the Federal law we also need to comply with State and local laws regarding school property. All of the State laws I have read up on have significant restrictions regarding firearms on school property as well. Even here in gun friendly AZ I can’t just saunter across school property carrying a loaded firearm without risking legal consequences. Regardless of the time of day.
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In Indiana, if you have a cc license you can have a gun in your car on school property, just don’t step out of the car with it
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CHAPTER 1. Schools [626 - 626.11]
( Chapter 1 added by Stats. 1969, Ch. 1424. )
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(2) (A) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person is within a locked container in a motor vehicle or is within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle at all times.
q) (1) This section does not apply to the activities of a program involving shooting sports or activities, including, but not limited to, trap shooting, skeet shooting, sporting clays, and pistol shooting, that are sanctioned by a school, school district, college, university, or other governing body of the institution, that occur on the grounds of a public or private school or university or college campus.
(2) This section does not apply to the activities of a state-certified hunter education program pursuant to Section 3051 of the Fish and Game Code if all firearms are unloaded and participants do not possess live ammunition in a school building.
Of course you needed to have a permit in clownaFornia, just to get that far with it.
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In Nevada, carrying a gun on school property is a gross misdemeanor, with the following penalties:
- Up to 364 days in jail
- Up to $2,000 in fines
- Expulsion from school for at least one year for the first offense
- Permanent expulsion from school for the second offense
However, there are some exceptions to the law, including:
- Peace officers
- School security guards
- Individuals with written permission from the school principal or the Nevada System of Higher Education
- Individuals who run a child care facility out of their home and comply with weapons laws
School discipline laws also state that a student found with a firearm or dangerous weapon on school property must be expelled for at least one year for the first offense. For a second offense, the student must be permanently expelled and either enroll in a private school or be homeschooled.
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Don’t temp fate. Even if you were to find some loophole that may imply it’s ok, those enforcing the law may not be aware and I thinks it’s best to avoid the situation altogether. If you know you’re right, but the enforcing personnel think otherwise, it could still mean arrest and confiscation of your weapon. If you have an ignorant DA or one who doesn’t care is at the helm in this jurisdiction, jail, bail and court costs could be in your future.
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Yes. Absolutely. Check.
But…we already did that in this thread.
Same as every other time I’ve seen anybody check their listings, a school is a school zone whether there are students present or not
And, heck, in the OP, the examples given are going to have students present, I’ll betcha dollars to donuts, if you want to really try to get all technical about it, if there is a chess tournament or a little league game…you really think there won’t be a kid there who is a student at that school?
A school is going to be a school zone and going to be just as illegal without students there as with
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There is no need for the law to clarify that, though. If the law says a school and its property are off limits…the school and its property are off limits.
There is no need to clarify “even when students are not present” any more than there is to clarify “even if the doors are green”
A school in CA isn’t going to be legal to carry at just because (as far as you know) there isn’t a student there at the time
Does this law make sense? Not to me, no. But, tis what it is
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I think the loop hole is when they found a way to infringe on our rights to have guns in school. If we don’t fight for our rights we will lose them.
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Hum, I stand corrected for attempting to apply and kind of sense or logic from one situation to another transferring an acceptable application in one another situation that doesn’t apply to the uniqueness of the School Zone situation and scenarios. It has its own unique special application regardless of any others. My bad for making that assumption. That’s a “I should have known better, oops,” on my part.
Unfortunately, except where (SROs) Schools Resource Officers assigned, or private security is hired. Those school’s a(GFZ) Gun Free Zones like everywhere else the exist leave those environments vulnerable to a bad act taking advantage of not having an adequate defensive situation until the cavalier arrives to end an active shooters mass killing spree.
That has been a highly controversial issue here in Tennessee since the Coventry Church School shootings incident that had no armed security unit the NMPD Nashville Metro Police Department arrived, engaged and ended the offending shooter. Who killed multiple people, students and staff during the response time interval.
Legislation was passed to allow specially qualified staff after meeting rigorous standards and requirements to be authorized to carry in schools that granted that permission along with the permission of law enforcement allowing that for those selected individuals. No schools or school districts have opted to allow that. So, extra funding had to be found to support extra law enforcement officers in each jurisdiction to be able to provide SROs without stripping their agencies staff to accomplish that.
No schools / or districts wanted to assume the responsibility of augmenting or providing their own armed security for their self defense.
So, as it stands in Tennessee only Law enforcement officers may carry in and around schools, no staff, or citizen regardless of permit holder status is allowed that.
Montana state law allows school boards to let any adult staff member carry a gun in schools. But fewer than 1 percent of schools in a state with a high number of gun owners actually do so.
Here’s a partial list list of states that allow teachers to carry in the classroom
- Alaska
- Arizona
- Arkansas
- Colorado
- Connecticut
- Delaware
- Florida
- Georgia
- Idaho
- Indiana
- Iowa
- Kansas
- Kentucky
- Massachusetts
- Michigan
- Minnesota
- Missouri
- Montana
- Nevada
- New Hampshire
- New Jersey
- New Mexico
- Ohio
- Oklahoma
- Oregon
- Pennsylvania
- South Carolina
- South Dakota
- Tennessee
- Texas
- Utah
- Vermont
- Wyoming
I believe Tennessee passed a law just this summer
Other than being legally, able to possess a gun here’s the biggest hurdle to jump over in Tennessee
“
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