Rifle Question

Guns & Gear Guns
21

you too Sir.

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22

I forgot to mention that also within that podcast series is a detailed explanation of the 4DOF calculator, how it works, and how to use it, even why they made it and, made it free.

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23

Looking forward to seeing that. Sounds very interesting.

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24

Hey @Virgil_H !!

Having played this game for most of my adult life I will give you a few observations I have made.

  1. Ballistic programs are generally more accurate than the ammo we buy and shoot. The problem comes in when you don’t realize the input your giving it is wrong.

1a. Most scopes out there are either MIL (Milradian) or MOA (Minute of Angle). You must know precisely what each adjustment gives you when you dial it on (commonly referred to a “clicks”). Most scopes may get close but most are not exactly 1/10 MIL or 1/4 MOA so the error for each adjustment compounds. The solution to this is to “calibrate” your scope. That’s a whole story by itself.

1b. The adjustments on a scope are made by gears. Just like the rear diff on your car they need “preload”. What that means in practice is you you dial in one direction. So if you need 2.5 MOA elevation/Right wind you would dial 2.5 MOA. If you miss and over shoot dial back 5 “clicks” and come at it again. Additionally if you need to take off 2.0MOA you dial past it by 5 "clicks and come back to it.

  1. Switching from different boolits isn’t just about the weight and velocity it is also about the jacket metal. I know if I shoot Hornady 208 A-Max’s or Berger 210 VLD’s they perform virtually identically and interchangeably. If I switch to a 210 SMK it will throw rounds all over the target for about 40 rounds before it becomes respectable again, same in reverse.

  2. As @Enzo_T pointed out barrel harmonics are a real thing and can be used to significantly tighten your groups once you begin reloading. I subscribe to the OBT Theory (Optimal Barrel Time Theory) It was theorized then proven by a radio engineer Chris Long, which basically says you want the boolit to exit the barrel when the majority of the vibration is at the bolt face. Upone firing the round the vibrations will travel up and down the barrel 6 - 8 times before the boolit leaves the barrel, there is usually a “warm node” and a “hot node”.

  3. Cold Bore Shot: Never Ever clean the bore of your rifle if you have finally gotten it zero’d down to the last nit. You have just spent all day fouling the bore and laying down guilding metal and then you run a wet patch down the tube with a solvent and all that is now gone. Try it. Get it zero’d and take it home leave it alone till your next trip, your CBS will be right where you left it (given similar atmospherics). Clean it and it will take 10 - 40 rounds to get it back. Most barrels will go 5-900 rounds before they need to be cleaned while maintaining the same CBS.

Food for thought and worth what you paid for it.

Cheers,

Craig6

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25

Hello to you too sir. I was also hoping you would offer your considerable expertise. Thank you for your time and guidance. Roger all on your observations.

I have noticed that similar rounds can have the same weight, speed, similar construction, and only seemingly differ in Ballistic Coefficient alone. I was initially surprised to see how much of a difference BC alone could make.

I remember reading your advice to us all about leaving the bore alone when it reaches the sweet spot. It was at least two years ago, and I adopted your methodology. It made a difference very quickly. Like many people, I would clean the bore after a range trip or two. Until I read your advice, I was astounded as to why my groups opened back up on the next range trip. It was like I was shooting another rifle.

I will start my reloading efforts this autumn sometime. I have a lot to learn but am looking forward to it. Thanks again sir. I appreciate you guys.

26

Always fun to read a real expert lay out facts. A few years ago a small team of members from the Guns and Ammo Magazine Forums (I was one of the mods back then but have since resigned that role but still a member) decided to design a new wildcat.

We wanted an ultralight hunting rifle with a pencil thin barrel shooting a 100gr .25 cal hunting SP spitzer bullet at around 2,800fps out of the smallest/shortest action and case we could find. I funded the whole project and one of my friends did all the gunsmithing and we published an article that I authored in the online version of the Magazine. We started with a Mini Mauser Remington action and installed a pencil thin 20” match barrel. We decided to use a .222 case. I still have all the tech drawings, the rifle and about 50 original loaded rounds.

All the load development was done by world class shooters/reloaders with software using the OBT theory and VERY precise data. We ended up with the .257 Scooter wildcat, shooting 100gr Sierra Game Kings at 2,795fps in a just over a 6lb bolt action (scoped) and MOA accuracy with literally just a few tenths of a grain of tweaking the software load recommendations. The gentleman who built the rifle shot a buck in his farm at 125 yards, that dropped on its tracks, to prove we had a winner.

All this is to say science works


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27

That is a great story sir. What a cool thing to get to do. Thank you for sharing that with us. The expertise and experience base we have here is truly remarkable, especially for a forum that is based on concealed carry of handguns.

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28

Agreed!!! :+1::+1:

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29

@Virgil_H when you get ready to get into precision reloading give me a shout (before you spend money). I can probably save you several 100’s of $$ in stuff you will shelve later. I know what to invest in and what to leave on the shelf. I’m not a big fan of some of the techniques used by the bench rest guys which may come as a surprise to some precision folk but the methods I use work every time. One of the things I have found using the OBT is that I have temperature/atmospheric rounds that are POI stable from 20-40F to 100-110F.

IIRC you are (fairly) local to me, I’m in VA Beach and you are near Staunton ish and I’m always looking for a weekend mental floss trip.

Buy books now and any chance you have to buy an old reloading manual do so. There is information from the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s that the lawyers won’t let them publish today that is very valuable.

Cheers,

Craig6

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30

Thank you brother. I really appreciate that. That is very kind of you. I am in the Charlottesville area. You have a good memory! Have a great day.

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31

Im also in Va, kinda inbetween the two of you. Id love to be there and listen to that conversation as a reloader myself. Always more to learn from people whove been at it longer than you have lol

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32

I have never reloaded, so I would be a very attentive and grateful student.

33

Ive always been more into the volume reloading side and not so much reloading for PRS so thats pretty new territory for me as well

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34

True words!!! I’m NOT advocating reckless reloading behavior by any means
. BUT the lawyer are the main editors of anything gun related nowadays and their mandated safety margins are nuts in many cases.

Some of the best loads I’ve ever put together where a hair over max in new books but were well within the “range” in old manuals. If you go slow, your gun will tell you long before you reach dangerous levels when you need to back off.

And Craig6 is right. Some of the “stuff” some benchrest guys will tell you to do is
 interesting, but in many cases not the only way to get there.

A lot of it depends on your expectations and platform. Is an acceptable group .5MOA or do you want a .167” cloverleaf of 5 shots, or do you need 1 hole dead center. Different animals and levels of equipment and labor.

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35

Always thought it funny that older conventional 10mm loads are way in thr “danger” zone in the last 2 or 3 hornady manuals/app updates

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36

10mm is a great round that suffered from too many folks that couldn’t handle it full horsepower in a 1911. Also a lot of folks got scared when the first gen Delta Elites from Colt started developing hairline cracks on the slides and Colt’s answer was “grind the crack off” :rofl:

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