Pastor shot with his own gun. If you whip it out, hang on to it.
3 Likes
Very unfortunate. An important lesson for all who carry.
8 Likes
People should understand if you’re carrying a gun, every situation has a gun involved. To what extent that may vary but a gun is involved we should be mindful
6 Likes
So, would like some feedback on my position:
I’ve only been a concealed-carrier for 3 years or so. I was taught and trained that when my gun leaves the holster, it needs to go “bang.” I was trained to NEVER draw my weapon to “send a message” or hold the Bad Guy at bay until authorities arrive. That’s the job of LEO’s, not me.
My other consideration is my age. I’m north of 50 years old. A young perp will be much quicker and probably stronger than me. So again, when my gun comes out, it needs to be used.
So I don’t know all the details. Perhaps he had drawn his weapon to give those with him time to exit the building. Sad for his family. Perhaps it reinforces the need for training for all of us. Train often, train well. Prayers for all.
1 Like
Re: “…I was taught and trained that when my gun leaves the holster, it needs to go “bang.” I was trained to NEVER draw my weapon to “send a message” or hold the Bad Guy at bay until authorities arrive.”
Mmmm, maybe. Let’s say you draw your gun and the perp runs away, are you going to shoot him in the back? Or he drops his gun and raises his hands, now what? Or someone is sneaking around in your house and you investigate with gun in hand and discover it’s one of your kids sneaking in or out?
I’ll have to look for it, but there are more defensive gun uses WITHOUT shots bring fired than shots actually fired. When cops draw their guns they usually yell, beg or plead the suspect drop his weapon.
I understand the sentiment of your training and an unholstered gun shouldn’t be intended as a threat, but being on pull-the-triggrt autopilot would be a very sad, expensive mistake to make.
6 Likes
@SkippySanchez, all great points. Again, not knowing details, If I open a bathroom door and see Bad Guy clutching a bag 'o money, I’m exiting immediately, along with everyone with me. Perhaps that wasn’t an option for the pastor.
So perhaps it reinforces the tail end of my comment, “train often, train well?” If the gun does come out but doesn’t go “bang,” then training is even more critical. Maintain separation, weapon at high-ready, area behind target safe, etc?
Thanks for the feedback!
Some instinctive habits are hard to break because, well, they’re instinctive. That’s why people have a hard time loosing weight or putting down their cell phones.
When I practice dry fire from the holster I make a point to NOT instinctively pull the trigger every time. Sometimes to low ready, sometimes high ready, sometimes sights on target but finger OFF the trigger and so on. Pulling the trigger should always be a separate decision from the draw stroke.
6 Likes
This is my mentality too. Gun leaves the holster it’s going bang. That being said, there could potentially be exceptions, such as threatening behavior but unsure of if they have a weapon (I’m not saying anyone should Willie Nillie pull a gun out).
I’ve also learned of someone goes for your gun, they might get shot depending on the circumstances, because them reaching for your gun is reaching for a lethal weapon.
There are exceptions and distinctions to most rules, but, as a conceal carrier, my mentality is if it’s time to pull the gun, it’s time to shoot.
3 Likes
After reading the article, I think the presentation was justified, where he messed up was taking his eyes off the bad guy. As soon as that bad guy approached him in a threatening way, I would have shot. That could legally bite you in the butt, but I would be more worried about staying alive. I still think he’d have been fine legally.
I would like to say it would have been better for him to evacuate the building, but there would be know way to know if the bad guy was armed.
Maybe if he hadn’t drawn the gun, it wouldn’t have escalated, but again, this sounded like a bad dude.
I think he did everything right except get distracted. Gun comes out, you can’t get distracted.
Terrible story, God rest his soul.
3 Likes
Very nice info here however I’m guessing the main thought here is not to get distracted, pay attention to what you’re doing. I’m thinking this was close quarters so all the more reason to stay on the ball. Another sad ending or the church folks & family
2 Likes
So I’m not totally off-base @Scoutbob! Like Skippy alluded to, there are always exceptions, but for the most part if it comes out it’s game time.
2 Likes
Absolutely. Good post.
That being I think one can draw with the intent to shoot. I think training the trigger pull as a separate decision from draw is good practice and propers. Things could change between draw and trigger pull. That being said, I think real life it’s more fluid. I’f my life’s in danger and I get a shot on a bad guy, I’m not going to draw the gun, reassess, then shoot. I’m going to draw the gun and shoot.
I also think drawing a gun before the decision to shoot comes up, could escalate the situation and make things much worse.
I think what I’m trying to say is we should be able to draw and pull the trigger, or draw and not pull the trigger if that makes sense 
.
My question would be, can one make the decision to shoot before the draw? Again, we’re talking about a fluid motion, not just draw gun, assess, shoot. Most real footage of videos I’ve seen are draw gun and hold bad guy (or he runs) or draw gun and shoot. Most situations for me, my guns not coming out unless I’m really intending to shoot (I would side with letting things work out without being involved unless shooting is the way to save lives, pulling a gun and holding someone can really just make things worse). BUT some bad guys run when the gun comes out. I would rather the bad guy run and no one get shot, but at the same time, I’m not a gambling man.
2 Likes
Typically these kinds of incidents go down in mere seconds and a dozen what-the-heck-do-I-do-now decisions must be made in fractions of a second. Draw/don’t draw, shoot/don’t shoot, run or stay put. Is it just me and bad dude or are there others around? Is it really a bad dude or a drunk or just nuts dude?
Hesitancy kills, but so does impulsiveness.
I’ve been CCing for almost two decades and fortunately have not been in such a situation, but if I had not played and replayed hundreds of “what if” scenarios ALL the time I wouldn’t have seen some incidents coming ahead of time and taken precautions long before the shoot/don’t shoot option presented itself.
Most of the time if drawing a gun is the only option you have left you’re already way behind the curve. And drawing a gun should be your last option, not your first.
2 Likes
I couldn’t word what I wanted to say really.
I %100 agree the finger is off the trigger until you intend to shoot. That also means getting your sites on target. This keeps you from shooting yourself a draw, or misfiring the weapon.
I just have the mentality of “if I’m drawing I intend to shoot” for most conceal carry situations. BUT I still follow the steps of the draw, finger off the trigger until it’s time to shoot.
2 Likes
I agree 100%. One thing that should be repeated: training. Force on force, active shooter scenarios, shooting in crowds, low light, etc.
1 Like