Post incident question

Legal & Second Amendment
26

In thinking about the time between when you call 911 and until the police arrive:

You’re being recorded on that 911 call, be calm, cool.

How much time could pass? If your’e in a city, a couple of minutes? Will you be tempted to stay on the phone with the 911 dispatcher while you await the authorities to arrive? Will that dispatcher be asking you more questions, or are they trained to try to keep you on the phone?

It will be a stressful moment. After you tell 911 the location, will you remember to hang up and call USCCA before the officers get there ? Once the officers are there, are you even going to be allowed to use your mobile phone there at the scene again?

We practice what we say to the police, but do we practice exactly what we will say to the 911 worker? Once the officers arrive, might they begin having us on their video cams?

Will you always have access to your phone? “Write down” important phone numbers, place them in a clear plastic pouch, carry it with you 24/7.

Guess, be mindful of “time”. Should we train for this scenario, practice drills, mock simulation?

Call the USCCA hotline now, hang up on the first ring; that way if you’re in a sentinel event, the number is posted on your phone’s top five last called numbers, and easier to dial them. IDK.

Guess I’d lean towards brevity, however the speaker on this video below offers a more open approach. Didn’t realize there was; Controversial, or is there really a balance between the two “responses”?:

Grace under fire?

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27

@Burdo Thank you for that video I had not seen it before and Mossad makes some VERY Excellent points. I believe that between the two opinions as stated in the videos a plausible medium can be established. Your point about the dispatchers is also very sentient in that dispatcher communications are often used in cases. I would submit that you use Mossad’s 5 points (or at least the first 3 to establish yourself as the victim and identify yourself to the authorities.
As was stated it is good to practice what you will say (even though there is no way to practice for the actual event , yet we practice with our firearms, Yes?) Same for job interview questions. The more you practice the common interview questions the better able you will be to adapt to ones that are similar.

IMHO the worst case scenario is that the police get there BEFORE the gunfight is over for all manner of reasons.

To the matter of medical attention the most I would do or say is “I don’t feel good and I’d like to see a Doctor.” UNLESS I was actually having symptoms of some thing. Being Fred Sanford in this case is not a good thing.

Lots of food for thought and worth sitting down at that table.

Cheers,

Craig6

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28

If murder is intentional, and self defense is actively taking actions to protect yourself…wouldn’t self defense (including shooting someone in self defense) also be intentional?

Sorry, I’m in one of those semantic moods.

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29

I sure hope so. If you accidentally shoot someone that’s bad.
The ME would rule it a Homicide (death at the hands of another) but, depending on your locale, most DA’s won’t bring charges.
Self defense is a God given right. Defense of another is the right thing to do but can be legally tricky.

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30

If someone is seeking to kill someone it is murder.
If you have absolutely no option to escape a situation that could end your life it is self defense

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31

I get it, I was just pointing out that murder AND self defense are technically “intentional”.

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32

Yes, I intentionally want to save my life from someone who does not value my life.

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33

Theoretically, the USCCA should have already vetted attorneys that are knowledgeable and experienced with self defense incidents. Anyway, that is part of the comfort I hope is provided by my membership.

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35

@Mark507 Check out the link for USCCA Attorneys. All Attorneys designated Critical Response Team Members have been "vetted by USCCA. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/attorneys/ :us:

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36

Just got back here and watched Ayoob’s video. Agree with it and think that is how I’d probably handle things anyway. I’m the good guy, I was attacked, I had no choice. There’s his weapon, I was standing here when I fired. I have multiple medical conditions and am disabled, I’d like to see a doctor. I will testify, and I will give a statement after speaking to legal counsel.

The “see a doctor” part for me, due to the fact that i am indeed totally disabled, double checks my wellness first, and it re-establishes that even a gut punch to one side (I’ll not specify here) can bust open enough morphine to kill 20+ people into my system. However, the doctor gets those details, not the cops. I’m not saying anything about minutaee to them. I’ll inform a doc that I need an xray to verify the integrity of an implanted system, and the medical team can explain to the cops why they’re waiting for me so long…meanwhile, I have time to sort out my thoughts, calm down a bit, and plan my next steps more so than if I did not ask to be seen by medical.
That said, IF in a room (interrogation type), I say only that “I’ll make a statement after I see my attorney,” and that is all they get if I have been arrested. I’ll 5th amendment them til doomsday before they get any more than “I need to use a restroom.” I know myself well enough to know that I like to talk, and if I start being open and talkative, I’ll risk talking myself into a cell even if totally innocent, and I promise that if I shoot anyone, if I even touch my pistol grips, I was left with no choice but to legally do so.

This is such an integral part of being “responsibly” armed, that is, we must protect ourselves legally as vigorously as we may have to do physically.

Lots of things to ponder. Lots of “how to” stuff to rehearse mentally just in case, God forbid…

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37

Actually the correct terminology of the commandment “thou shall not murder” is the correct translation. Murder is by definition intentional in the minimum. God Himself allows us to defend ourselves. Not to mince words or start an argument. The biblical terminology is murder not kill. God Himself has killed many people not murdered due to floods, famine, pestilence and so on due to disobedience as set forth by His word. “edited, my apologies, i type faster than i think at time.”

Ancient Israelites, under the Old Covenant, were allowed to kill other humans under very special circumstances such as punishment for certain sins, for example, murder (Exodus 21:12 - 14, Leviticus 24:17, 21) and adultery (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22 - 24). God also allowed the Israelites to engage in warfare and even gave them instructions about waging war (Deuteronomy 20:1 - 20). He also recognized that humans might accidentally kill each other, and he made provisions for this (Numbers 35:9 - 34, Deuteronomy 19:1 - 13).

The primary reason God hates murder is that out of all creation, only human are made in his image and likeness (Genesis 1:26 - 27, 9:4 - 6). Even before the codification of the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, the murder of other human beings was wrong (Genesis 4:8 - 12, 4:23 - 24, 9:4 - 6, Exodus 1:16 - 17).

While on earth, Jesus spoke out against murder (Matthew 5:21 - 26, Mark 10:17 - 19). We also see in the writings of Paul (Romans 1:18, 29 - 32, 13:8 - 10, Galatians 5:19 - 21), James (James 2:8 - 11, 4:1 - 3), Peter (1 Peter 4:15 - 16) and John (Revelation 9:20 - 21, 21:7 - 8, 22:14 - 15) that murder is wrong.

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38

A great phrase I like to use for an incident should you find yourself in one, is shut up and lawyer up. The police are going to need certain information, so be respectful and cooperative to a point, then invoke your 5th and seek legal counsel. you also need to be checked by the EMTs or go to the hospital due to trauma. Do NOT say anything that may incriminate you. You will remember details later after it has happened, and once the adrenaline has settled back down.
Also check on your lawyer list for USCCA, I have called a few on my list and they are not aware they are on the list or are too busy I have been told to take on a case. Very unsettling.

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39

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40

correct sir, murder. I agree completely. If it were against God’s commandments to kill at all Jesus would not have told us to sell our cloaks and buy a sword.

“edited” my apologies.

The commandment is lo tirtach, and its meaning is clear: " Thou shalt not murder ." All murder is killing , but not all killing is murder . Killing a chicken for food is not murder , and killing a person in self-defense is not murder . Murder is the morally unjustified killing of a human being.

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41

I edited my previous reply, I was typing too fast, as I often due. Habit from school, I forget to proof read my writings. My apologies. I do not have to do APA formatting on here so i ramble at times. :grinning:

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42

Really, the lawyer’s did not know that they were on the USCCA list? Now I have to check on a few in a few different states do to me traveling so.

43

In general, I am astounded that this thread went all religious as it did.
It was my understanding (maybe wrong), that only USCCA members have access to this board. Therefore, those people are paying for insurance in case they have to use the concealed weapon they carry for self-defense.
If one carries, one better dang well have it worked out in their heart and soul well in advance of needing to draw that firearm. Thing is, I’d have expected members here to have done that already, and not be debating it.

Way I see it, if someone tries to kill me, I’m gonna try to kill 'em back. Period. It is their sin in trying to take a life God Himself created if they make me have to do that.

That’s all I got.

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The USCCA Online Community is open to anyone to view and requires that you have a USCCA account - either membership account or free account - to make a comment.

When we carry a firearm for our self-defense, our goal is to protect ourselves not to kill anyone. Our intent is to preserve our lives. We know that our shots may kill, but our goal is to stop the threat.

Comments like this can be used against you in a court if you ever have to legally defend yourself after a physical self-defense incident:

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46

The attorneys are pre-vetted and agree to be on our list, @MtnDewey-BSBCJA. Which said they weren’t aware they were part of the Attorney Network? I’d love to send their names to the Critical Response Team for them to follow up on!

It is true, some might have a full case load and won’t be able to take on new clients at any given time. One of the great benefits of your USCCA membership is that you are able to choose your own attorney. So if the attorney you originally wanted to work with has a full schedule, you can choose another attorney even if they’re not in the USCCA network.

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47

I’m concerned that attorneys are on the list that are unaware they’re on the list.

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