Would like one of the USCCA attorneys to chime in if possible.
Pennsylvania. Does a Pa LCF permit allow one to open and conceal carry?
A recent incident in the city where I live a guy was in a convenience store. Open carry. A minute later. He concealed it. Then back to open. Then back to conceal. This went in for about 10mins the entire time the guys wife was creating more of a scene by loudly announcing her husbands actions (she was clearly upset w him). Long story short… I was discussing this w a friend and my friend (which is just a gun owner, not an officer of the law or an attorney)… said…
“With a LTCF in Pa it gives you the option to open carry or conceal”.
Can someone set the record straight please?
Ty.
From this page: “Open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a permit for anyone who is at least 18 years old and who can legally possess a firearm. Concealed carry is legal with a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms (LCF) or a permit/license from a state with which Pennsylvania has reciprocity.”
I’m not an attorney and have no legal training.
From my reading, it looks like the guy in the convenience store was acting legally. Wisely? Another story entirely.
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Sorry not to detail the story as it’s long, but he had a LCF permit.
Trying to find my way through a grey area of “does a permit allow you to do both”?
When I lived in Reading, PA from 2013 - 2019, a permit cost you $20, an extensive, instant background check that ran a half-hour for me, and was valid for 5 years, but ONLY allowed you to carry concealed. No qualification required, and the process was carried out by the sheriff’s office in the city courthouse. The person you observed was exhibiting the jackass behavior similar to a former co-worker of mine, who decided to flash someone during a traffic incident and LOST his permit.
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Is there a newspaper article or video of this somewhere, or is this something you heard anecdotally? I’d like to read more if the former.
Yes. I’m totally familiar w everything you just wrote. The process was identical for me and ironically… a fellow cop worker 2 yrs ago flashed his firearm in a traffic incident and lost his permit as well
No article. Witnessed the incident myself.
Guy was in a store. Open carry. A minute later. He covered it. Then open carry. Then covered it. Went on for about 10 minutes. He never brandished the firearm. The entire time his wife was “ hey everyone. My husband is a tough guy. He just got his first gun. Can ya tell? He showing it to you all”.
Few mins later. She’s on her phone. Very shortly after that. Police arrived and escorted the guy outside and were talking w him.
Wife : “ he has a conceal permit but wtf”!?!?
He’s acting like a child w a new toy!!!”
The store had no signage of firearm policy.
So with all that. I discussed this incident w a friend. Friend says that in pa. a LCF allows you to open and conceal carry.
I beg to differ. Conceal permit means just that.
Yes. I know the law in pa pertaining to Philadelphia.
My question still stands.
Does a pa LCF permit allow one to conceal and open carry?
Looking for a more legal answer.
Hope the scenario helps your though process on this matter.
As @OldGnome stated, the LCF “allows” one to CC, state law, otherwise, “allows” one to OC. The LCF does not bar one from OC, it only provides for one to CC. You should either contact your state police, their website may have a FAQ page that also explains the laws related to CC and OC, or contact your local District Attorney. You can even do as OldGnome suggests and contact a USCCA-affiliated attorney.
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I believe your question has been answered. LCF allows CC. State Law allows open carry. Since he has the law and a LCF, and no signage barring his behavior.
Stupid behavior, Yes. Criminal behavior no, unless he was " brandishing it in an attempt to intimidate.
Bad look for the CC community at all, yep.
He might want to call a good divorce attorney, though.
But feel free to go tilt at a windmill on this one and pay for a lawyer.
DISCLAIMER
I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on TV, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
YMMV
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From what I understand Pennsylvania allow one to open carry without a permit and requires a permit to conceal carry. So if one has a permit I would say they are able to do either. The only thing I disagree with is the act of going back and forth like a child with a new toy ( as his wife stated ). This is dangerous for two reasons I see. The first being, he draw unneeded attention to himself which makes him a target if anything was to take place. And the second thing is, he shows lack of experience of being a gun own which is also dangerous.
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I’m not sure there are any PA attorneys in the Community actively at this point.
From our Reciprocity Map.
If you have a permit, you can carry concealed. You don’t need a permit for open carry.
His behavior may be considered brandishing in some states as he was exposing his concealed firearm and drawing attention to it. Is it illegal behavior? Possibly.
Was it poor behavior on his part by daring attention to his firearm/brandishing? Yes.
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Sounds like his carry method is the least of his problems.
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