Over penetration vs. barrier penetration in reguards to defensive ammo selection

I don’t think there is a cut and dry answer to this. Bullets can have a mind of their own sometimes and will go where the want, especially after hitting a barrier, i.e. a 1/2 inch plate glass store window. Sure, a bullet will shatter it, but where will it go after that? Only Stephen Segall or James Bond can shoot through a wall, miss the ketchup and pickles, and kill the bad guy. If a situation calls for you to take the chance you still have to think twice. Kevin M. in the USCCA training videos, often reminds us that we are responsible for every round that leaves the end of our gun.
I think it would be a no brainer if your family is in trouble, but that doesn’t change the fact that wrong choices are irrevocable. Being a responsible gun owner is a lot of responsibility. When we get to condition Red and make the decision to Draw & Fire we’d better know we are right. If we are wrong all the insurance in the world won’t help us. Thank God for the USCCA. They offer a ton of material and training to help us prepare, if there is such a thing, for that condition Red moment, which I personally pray never comes. I carry the best self-defense rounds I can afford. (Black Hills Honey Badgers. $27.99 per 20)). They are designed for about 15inches of penetration, with a bad enough wound cavity to stop the threat, hopefully with minimal number of rounds. I can only hope they are a good enough choice if the time comes to find out. Sorry for rambling.

Cover and freeze up are two very interesting attributes in a gunfight. They affect your training. There’s no way to learn it, besides the 2 way range.

The first time I responded to a firefight all I remember seeing was the blood of the Sgt. that another part of our element had just medevacd (he’s fine and living a happy life in Texas.) I froze up. My vision was in a tunnel. I wish I could say I performed and did exactly what I trained to do, but simply thats not what happened. It was only a momentary lapse, maybe a couple milliseconds. I don’t even remember the sound of the rifle reports.

Cover is weird too. I saw a guy take cover behind a bucket with brooms in it that were for sale outside a store in a market. I was talking with a member of my gun club who saw a video of a ccw permit holder take cover behind a rack of chips in a gas station. The gunman didn’t shoot through the rack of chips, he moved around them to get a clear shot, and got himself killed in the process.

I guess like I said above, there is no way to know how stuff works on the 2 way range unless you’ve been there, and even then, you don’t know how bullets react and exit a body, and shooting at stuff like glass and concrete cause ricochets. I wouldn’t shoot through cover, I’m running away. I also won’t kick in a door to get somebody and end up in a fatal funnel. You have to move with a high level of violence and speed to do that successfully. I hope i didn’t retract from the original post, but adrenaline, freeze up, and cover was brought up.

Finding a place that trains with force on force scenarios with those simulation rounds is the closest you can get to an actual gun fight. Pain is an incredible motivator for using good tactics and techniques

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@Sheepdog556 I’ve trained with them a whole lot, and it’s close. They teach you about how many misses you’ll actually have.

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Adrenaline is a VERY funny thing. Training helps. Any defensive training helps, including Martial Arts. Ask Steve. LOL :slightly_smiling_face:

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The Army also struggled with this problem. That’s why they reversed course after a century from a FMJ to a JHP with the introduction of the new Sig M17 handgun platform. The new ammunition is a 9mm, 147 gr sub-sonic hollow point based off of the Winchester T series. The whole point is better stopping power without risking over penetration and hitting innocent bystanders. If they need penetration, that’s a completely different scenario than self defense, Army uses a different tool for that situation (.308 rifle).

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You mean USCCA Steve F? How do you know him? LOL! It’s a small world!

Yes. He used to be my Martial Arts instructor. We know each other well. Never P him O… haha. He’s a great guy.

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Lol! He’s a great guy and has been trying to get me back into TKD since I started at the USCCA 3 years ago. :slight_smile:

I’ve never trained with him, I don’t doubt he’s intimidating!

I think there is way too much thought here.
It comes down to this. Is my life directly in danger?
Im not going to deploy my firearm if the answer is no.
I’m not saving the world, etc.
If there is a barrier or option for cover, I’m taking it.

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My main issue is self-defense ammo from inside my apartment. In New Jersey, Hollow Points are illegal unless you are hunting, go figure. My problem is if I have to defend myself from an intruder, I am worried that my 9mm or ,40 caliber will go through and through and possibly hit someone not intended. If New Jersey would only allow Hollow Points, then they would split and stay mostly in the attackers body and not go any further. It’s a lot to consider and worry about when someone is coming at you intending bodily harm but that is the situation. Any thoughts about my issue?

It might be worth checking into the legality of Underwood extreme defender ammo or the newer polymer ammos that are similar like the Ruger ARX. They are scalloped ball ammo that is supposed to function similar to hollow points.

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