McCloskeys Charged

Perhaps it should be a “proper tactics and defensive use of weapons” course.

Definitely good with choke point, however I think of our community, and aren’t we willing to die for the cause? I’m not sure how many would scatter at the first shots out of 300 - 500 people overrunning my choke point even 1% that may have come armed and I would suffer. I do agree they should have waited until entry was breached. They still, unequivocally did not break any law by any reasonable standard.

Your cents are always welcome. It’s the prosecutor that’s going above and beyond the laws.

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Thanks, That is how I saw it also.
Now the latest info is that the pistol was inoperable and the AR unloaded? No concealment? No cover? Messing with a violent mob like that?
Really?
This could be a valuable learning experience for everyone?
God almighty protected them from themselves that day.

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While my home defense plan contains a primary and 2 fallback positions that take advantage of natural chokepoints, they do come with the drawback of having less awareness of what’s going on outside my house. If I’m forced to use these, hostiles are already inside. A problem I have and I’m sure the McCloskey’s do given the size of their home, is that they probably have too many points of entry to be able to cover.

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My thoughts are MO has one of the strongest “Castle doctrines” out there. They’re offering the McCloskey’s diversion to plead guilty…NO WAY!!!

IF I’m them. I fight all the way to SCOTUS on this…and when they win they should then sue for malicious prosecution! That’s all it is.

The Governor says he’ll pardon…the State AG is looking at taking over and dropping the charges.

2A STILL UNDER ASSAULT!!!

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At a minimum, they could have been out there … poised at “low ready”.

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Felony Charges may apply if found convicted and more. This is not and accidental showing of firearms.

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Some observations and opinions. [Opinions are like (pick a part of the anatomy), everyone has one].

The Missouri AG has explained the Castle Doctrine in his state which includes the right to protect life and property with force, up to and including deadly force. So far the McCloskey’s have asserted that they were in fear for both given the context. Rioting causing damage to property, arson, looting, the killing of David Dorne, former small town chief and Captain of St Louis Police who was trying to protect property. The mob tore down pedestrian and vehicular fences and entered private property. If the castle doctrine applies in this case, then brandishing, pointing, threatening to use deadly force is all covered under the Castle Doctrine and ergo not crimes. Sure, plenty of bad tactics. Finger discipline, muzzle discipline, failure to use cover and concealment, et al. Not crimes.

Throw in some twists addressed by Dana Loesch and others. If accurate these items really limited the options for the McCloskeys. The small handgun, possibly a Jimenez (ph) was supposedly an inoperable prop used in a civil case. The McCloskeys supposedly had no ammunition in the house for either weapon. Whoa there! Hiding in the house to use the fatal funnel in case of invasion, hiding the weapons “til the last minute” and other options go out the window.

The use of empty and/or inoperable weapons as props is truly a desperate act by desperate people. Kind of bolsters the assertion that they were in fear for their lives and property. Apologies to all the tactical gurus out there.

By the by, the McCloskeys said they called 911 and the police did not show. They called the security company contracted by the neighborhood association to provide, surprise, security. They did not show. Their neighbors are no where to be seen. All alone with a mob. Holy Moly!

Fast forward to the search warrant. I would truly like to see the probable cause affidavit presented to a supposedly impartial magistrate that convinced him/her to issue a warrant to search their home. But hey, if the prosecutor is ignoring the totality of the circumstances and the applicability of the Castle Doctrine, what’s a questionable search warrant here or there. I would enjoy examining the affiant for this one. Unfortunately the magistrate enjoys some immunity for “acting in good faith.” [Right!]

Now, for the felony charge. Was it based on a criminal information, in which an affiant convinces an impartial magistrate [the same one maybe?] that probable cause exists to issue a felony warrant for the McCloskeys, or did it result from an indictment issued by a grand jury of good citizens? Inquiring minds and all that. Don’t know Missouri law, but I would bet that a defendant does not ultimately have to answer to a felony criminal information and can demand the matter be presented to a grand jury. Perhaps they should demand speedy trial. My money is on them.

And finally, the prosecutor who brought this malicious [my opinion] prosecution recommends a pre trial diversion!@! She wants the charge to stand but offers to make it go away if these folks will admit to guilt of a felony in allocution only to have the charges vacated if they successfully complete a term of supervision.

In summary, the McCloskeys appear to have taken a desperate gamble to protect life and property. They didn’t have weeks to consider their options. Mr. McCloskey said on a TV interview that his wife didn’t know anything about guns. They acted in the moment with little training or preparation. Lessons to be learned. Don’t keep a firearm unless it is functional, one has ammunition for same, one has training and current practice with the weapon(s). One has a plan in place for security of yourselves and your property. Contingency plans for retreat and survival. Gosh, sounds like the McCloskeys would really benefit from USCCA membership and the myriad of training materials and opportunities. And so it goes…

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Hmmm… possibly evidence tampering by Circuit Attorney staff?

St. Louis prosecutor ordered crime lab to reassemble Patricia McCloskey’s gun

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Imagine if their governor’s Newsom or Cuomo, not Parson.

We have to be real smart about it.

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I would like to emphasize what @Brad mentioned

3:Set up filming to allow for some facts, regardless of how it goes

They have camera’s recording you, in which will more than likely be edited and posted and probably not in your favor. And we all know what “Knee Jerk Reaction, and you are now the devil incarnate” means.

SO You should have a camera recording them, its as simple as propping your phone up INSIDE your own home. Most phones can multitask…

put 911 on speaker,
go to camera
start recording
place accordingly

And that’s coming from the middle of the road gun owning liberal :smiley:

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Some people should verify with their phone first. I can’t take video and be on the phone at the same time with my LG V20. I can take pictures, however.

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Looks like the AG is getting involved and this is going to go away.

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It is a shame that this can happen. I am not well versed in all of the details surrounding this particular case, but it does seem that something is wrong here. I think that this whole black lives matter movement has lost focus, has become a criminals haven, and just is out of control. Don’t get me wrong, I am sickened by the actions that led to George Floyd’s death. In my opinion, whatever it’s worth, he was murdered. Plain and simple. The police officers were arrested and justice will be served.

So what is the issue? Now we have an out of control mob of people using this man’s death as an excuse to commit crimes. Let George Floyd rest in peace. So now we have a mob of so called “protesters”, trespassing into a private community, trespassing onto private property and allegedly threatening the McCloskey’s and their family. I am no legal expert, but something seems terribly wrong when the actual people breaking the law are protected by it and the people trying to protect themselves are persecuted.

This story also strengthen my choice to join the USCAA.

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Just came out in the news that the Prosecuting attorney, Kim Gardner failed to file the trips she made for Soros:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/jeff-reynolds/2020/07/28/st-louis-circuit-attorney-kim-gardner-globetrotting-with-soros-organizations-fails-to-report-trips-n720694

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Thanks for posting this. I probably will see it on the YouTube channel Guns & Gadgets. You know I am not much into the Karma stuff, but this time it did work out that way.

Thanks again, God Bless and stay safe.

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I know its not news, but keep in mind Gardner was also one of Soro’s picks when he switched from national elections to working to place people at a grass roots level.

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@KevinM’s point of view:

What good is the 2nd Amendmernt , if we can’t protect our property and lives from hurt , without being arrested !!!

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