Agreed. However, the Escalation of Force training I got while in Iraq was “Shout, Show, Shove, Shoot.”
Shout at the target to STOP. Then Show your Weapon to indicate deadly force can be used if the target does not stop. If they get too close, you Shove them back. If those things don’t work, you Shoot. Of course EoF can go from 0 to Shoot instantly if the situation demanded, or any combination of the process.
So the RoE while I was deployed were more restrictive than domestic self defense laws. According to Florida self-defense law (ie Castle Doctrine) there is no duty to retreat, and anywhere you are legally allowed to be is legally considered the same thing as your home. Deadly force is authorized if one believes him/herself to be in danger of loss of life, grievous bodily injury, or sexual assault. Of course, the “Reasonable Person” test comes into play. However, in certain counties in Florida, if you go looking for trouble, and you prey upon the wrong person, and end up dead or grievously wounded, the Sheriff is not only not going to prosecute your (attempted) victim, but he will ridicule you on TV. Food for thought.
Very interesting. I do not consider myself any type of long-distance marksman. I rarely even shot at the 300m targets when qualifying in the Army, rather saving my ammo to double-tap the 25 - 150m targets if needed (Army pop-up targets are notorious for not going down after being hit once). So recognizing my limitations, I tend to choose calibers that are good at medium range and pack a punch. Hollow-points and lasers increase my potential for scoring hits and damaging any potential aggressor. Headshots are not my thing. In a crisis, anything that will knock down and keep down a violent adversary is my preferred thing. 12 gauge, 223/5.56, 300AAC (aka Blackout), and 458 SOCOM are my go-tos for long rifle crisis management. But as statistics tell us, most gun battles happen within 20 feet. For that, I choose .40cal with JHPs and other LE-grade HP rounds. Back-up guns are 9mm with JHP rounds. I don’t want to fire lots of rounds; I want what I fire at to fall down and stay down.
At the range, I always mix in some headshots in practice.
I need improvement at longer ranges. The only way to get better is practice.
I also use what was taught in a class as the “Mozambique Drill”, two to the chest and one to the head.
You never know what the scenario will be if an actual event happens, so never hurts to train for all body parts if needed.
If shooting center mass isn’t possible (plate carrier, etc.) then I would take out the legs. An immobilized assailant isn’t a huge threat. Besides, you shoot out someone’s knees, they will forget all about you. I know what marching 3 miles on torn MCL and ACL looks like-- was the first time I ever saw a grown man ugly-cry from physical pain. Explosively removing a knee would be even worse.
I also found my accuracy suffers while aiming lower on a target.
Been working on that as well and getting better.
Shooting straight and higher no problem but fixing what happens aiming lower.
With weird eyesight (near-sighted in one eye and far-sighted in the other) green lasers help with fine-aiming. Almost all my firearms are so outfitted.
While center mass shots are not the best for body armor, the average perp knocking over the 7-11 won’t have it. If body armor is present, shoot for critical areas outside it’s coverage.
Well batter up cowboy…
Judged by 12 than carried by 6 huh. If you can take heads shots on moving targets, around corners, across fields and through windows well hoo-rah. Just do it, but it might not go to well with you in court depending on your area and investigation as it seems that criminals have rights…or else we wouldn’t be on a USCCA feed now, riiiight. Ok so, your aim is to kill right off the bat, how will that look in court? You want to disable your attacker but head shots means intent to kill in a court of law since head shots are assassination shots-point blank.
On the other hand, body shots/center mass by your average citizen means more of a hit and sure take down and survival for the criminal,yeah I know, but… Your object is to disable an attacker but if chances are he’s killed then the fault is the attacker not the defender. Just something to think about. Nobody can tell you how to handle it when your butt is the only one standing against the criminal in a real life face to face survival situation soo…
It’s kinda funny (Not Ha Ha funny…Ironic maybe)
All the fights I’ve been in I NEVER went in thinking ‘Head shots’
I just went in balls up and if the situation presented itself I took it.
No real plan, I’m going to break right or hit the ground just took the
moments as they came. I had heard God laughs at our ‘Plans’…
That’s all. In my ‘yoot’ in an Armored car hold-up I shot back and the
last rounds I took were Head shots (1) each. I guess I felt like I needed
the shoot over completely, I was down and hurt real bad, I didn’t know if
I was going to pass out, bleed out but I didn’t want that threat coming at me again.
Somebody could have picked up their gat’s and finished me off I guess but that thought
came about in the Hospital much later. But in those moments them or me they were
going down. It was real clear at the time. Plus I was PISSED! Some say you shouldn’t
act out with emotion (or some nonsense)…They’ve never been in a Gunfight I guess.
Weird how you think of something years later and all I acn come up with was
‘Yeah, I did it right’ (Thank heysus and his Band of brothers!) funny that.
I apologize Will,
I got lost in a memory for a bit there, I was going to respond to your comment and YES, I agree whole heartedly. If you are up against a Body Armor adversary all bets are off and you do whatever it takes
to win. No, Courts, judgements will be made against you—You do what you have to do. Especially if the hardware matches the Armor (AR/AK) But you also nailed it! No back of the head shots (or back if you can help it. There will always be monday morning quarterbacking on whatever we do. let’s not give them Ammo to prosecute us. The guy in that Mexican Taqueria in Texas took the shot from behind, he saw am Op and took it Bravo…But the coup de grace when the dude was down—sketchy–he got lucky.
TRUE! …but c’mon guys. We are talking about your average citizen for the most part. Now if your in the military or law enforcement arena, yep at that point head shots are on the table for sure, if your good enough to hit the bad guy before he hits you aiming for a smaller target, the head, do yur thing. Again, your mostly trained how to engage,BUT, your average Sue, John, Marcus or Mike who lives a regular joe lifestyle are not combat trained and being at the firing range only teaches you how to aim and shoot. Those targets dont shoot back, thats the big difference folks.
For the regular joe/ citizen, center mass if your in such an unfortunate situation. Head shots are more risky and questionable during an investigation, believe that.
But again, only you can make that call when your butt is the one on the line, no-one else.
I like this stuff…be safe…
You can be taught Mr. and Mrs. Average Citizen to do Head Shots if you TRAIN for it.
You don’t have to be a Scout Sniper or train like a SEAL to achieve that.
I Trained myself , I’m just a Bodyguard ( was) now I train up (unofficially others)
Mozambique Drills-‘Two to the chest one to the head’ center Mass , Krav, Street.
It doesn’t happen over night and the people have to put their range time in, but it
can be done. I know a guy who starts people off at 3ft ! Almost touching the target
then little by little he moves it more down range
Maybe it’s stupid–maybe it’s totally incorrect and bad advice–poor training doctrine
(but for some it works).
Personally I would rather Train up by Craig or Enzo, Scott or karacl. But I had No one
to lean on. I taught myself, I’m just a regular guy. No Seal/Delta/SF training until later.
Then I hung out with the BEST and they took me under their Flipper’s. And I got pretty good.
(My humble opinion)
I went to THUNDER RANCH a few times, I’ve fought in (3) sand boxes, (and other stuff)
I am probably doing things wrong, Incorrectly, dumb but for me it works.
I suggest learning the four rules, Comfortable stance, finding a gun they are comfortable with Tap them on the shoulder w/ a fresh mag, watch their backs when in their lanes so no one messes with them, and help finding a pro who will take the time to properly show them the ropes. WHAT I do is take their nervousness, Anxiety, FEAR away by being a Buddy, a Friend. then when they get the gumption up, I turn them over to the Professionals. I just hope I’m not hurting anybody. I Pray I do just enough to let them know they can do whatever they wish and go as far as their dreams can take them.
I want them all to be LIONS.
Practice does make perfect. Well, truth is as long as you learn how to aim and shoot, you’ll get good at it.
As for heads shots, unless that’s all you have to aim at then remember your range target and, oh well.
Again, unless your combat trained or the bad guy doesnt know your there, youll be taking a shot in the dark at a smaller target than the body most likely. Also, most people range shoot in the light. Things to consider, that’s all. Youll have a better chance of hitting center mass even at night if your attacked.
Take down and disable attacker
Survival opportunity for both involved
Walk free from court or jail in case attacker dies
Keep in mind that your not looking for a chance to be an assasin, right. But you DO want to disable a threat completely. However the chips has to fall in the line of the defender’s/ you’re safety and legal rights, even IF a head shot is what you feel you have to take, then
let the defender defend.
P.s.
Not to sound conflicting but…If people are willing to spare a wild animal’s life that is trying to attack and mainly kill you(mountain lion/mother bear…see YT) why not give a human a chance to live to regret their wrongful mistake. Just a thought no right or wrong ideas here. Ultimately again the choice is yours having the upper hand that is.
Oh, disclaimer…" do not put your trust on any attacker’s mercy, a big mistake many have made."
ITS UP TO YOU IN SUCH AN UNFORTUNATE EVENT.
You sound like you want a debate?
I don’t.
You have the Rights and freedom’s as any other in our Country.
I don’t know you
So, why don’t we just call this a day, We agree to disagree
Have a nice day
Really? Sounds like your getting bent out of shape because Im simply saying consider all the facts about head shots and what could be a legal issue, for anybody?
This feed is under dueling discussion. Recheck it ok.
You dont have to respond…so don’t!
We don’t need to know each other buddy, like Bruce Willis said " I like ice so leave it the ---- alone"
You dont own anything here to tell anyone to shut up In your so called polite way, pal. Dont go there.
Have a nice day. Now be safe and stay free:face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Dont get me wrong, all Im saying is that you have to do what you feel is needed if attacked, thats all.
But, its more to this stuff than just buying a gun, playing navy seal at the firing range and thinking that just shoot’em up and its all good. YES defend yourself at all cost…but, there are cases where the defender/ homeowner was found liable due to some sort of technicalities in the act of defending themself somehow. Some are in jail right now, innocent.
Just consider all things, not just shoot’em down cold blood. What if they are not armed! Some states will throw the book at you for that. If you think Im wrong then why are we on a USCCA feed people? Why are we members?
Hey, if you rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, I say hoo-rah. Im a gun owner who believes in self defense. Your life over a criminal attacker anyday!
Point blank.
Oh, in case of this Zombie Apocalypse whatever, you wont have to worry about court trials then, so take all the head shots you like because law and order probably wont exist then…be safe.
Now be safe and stay free:face_with_hand_over_mouth: