CCW while masked in the time of covid19

Agree completely, which is why I said ‘one could only hope’. Unfortunately, common sense seems to be in short supply these days.

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Unless you have a huge Migraine! Trust me sometimes dark sunglasses in a dimly lite room is how you survive.

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This joke is making the rounds…

Two masked men run into the local bank. The patrons are terrified of contracting the virus–until the masked intruders state, “This is just a holdup!”

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Just gets back to concealed means concealed, so we don’t have to hope for common sense.

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I’ll amen those dark glasses

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I cannot speak to the laws of other jurisdictions, however, “necessity” or “choice of evils” was a common law defense and has been adapted by many jurisdictions, including Kentucky. A link to the Kentucky statute is below. You can google those terms in your own state’s statutes under justification and/or defenses.

It generally means that it is a defense to the commission of a crime that the offense committed is justifiable when the defendant believes that it is necessary to avoid a public or private injury greater than the offense prevented by the offense charged.

For instance, busting the window of a car out to get a child out who was left in a car on a hot day would be justified.

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19667

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Good call Mike. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Similar in California:

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Thanks for the legal review. It sounds like I’m covered when carrying a firearm when visiting a bank. I wasn’t making a ‘speedy withdrawal,’ merely depositing a check. The mask was a typical N95, which was in no way meant or intended to mask my identity (particularly as they have my name on the check). I was doing it for the greater good of the community by following my governor’s orders. The Calif law written to penalize the masking of ID when carrying a firearm into a bank was never written factoring in such an event as this one. (In many respects, I can’t even believe we are even having this conversation!)

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Different names in various jurisdictions. “Doctrine of Competing Harms” in the New England states. I’ve heard it used to explain everything from why you won’t be charged for driving on the wrong side of the road when you cross the double yellow to avoid hitting someone to why police are allowed to exceed the speed limit.

The problem with a “necessity” defense is that it, like self-defense (to which it is related), has a timing component. It might not be quite as tight as “imminent and unavoidable” but the longer the timeframe involved the less successful the argument seems to be. @MikeBKY That’s what would worry me about relying on the use of necessity.

I’m not a lawyer, but it turns out the Doctrine of Competing Harm is one of my passions. It is one of a handful of common law concepts that make the legal system function. Though if you want to look at the downside, it will also be used to justify the constitutionally suspect actions taken by various officials to combat Covid-19.

It would be interesting to check case law, but I suspect that intent to conceal identity is required for a successful prosecution even in states that don’t include intent in the language of the prohibition. Otherwise medical professionals, welders, skiers, etc, would all be prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon. Winter carry would be illegal in most states, Not only that, but a prohibition without intent would be subject to multiple First Amendment challenges. Both on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Expression grounds. You need intent.

BTW, if I were a malicious prosecutor then what I would do is show that it was possible to construct a Covid-19 protective mask that did not unnecessarily conceal your identity, with the use of computer facial recognition such as Apple Face ID as proof. Then claim your failure to employ that style of protective mask was evidence of your intent to conceal your identity. And this is why you try not to piss off police and prosecutors, because normally no one is going to pursue this kind of case in this environment. But if you want them to come down on the wrong side of their discretion in these matters it isn’t that hard to make it happen.

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You are correct that necessity can be a very difficult defense. Wearing a mask during a pandemic is an easy call. Even without the pandemic, wearing a medical mask would probably not be a violation of law since, as you said, there needs to be intent or some other mental state that would lead to a violation. Wearing a mask on Halloween and carrying a firearm probably borders on the fringes of these laws but, considering the day and no unlawful intent, it would be hard to prosecute unless you were robbing someone.
The CA statute in the initial post makes it illegal “while masked so as to hide the person’s identity.” It does not specifically include a criminal mental state but I, like you, would assume that there needs to be intent to hide your identity.

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I recently reached out to a local (to me) community as they are on a county-wise basis driving the requirement to wear a mask nearly everywhere, and particularly indoors. I went to a bank to deposit thousand of dollars and was in usual fashion, carrying concealed. I decided it was time to get a good reading on the conflicting laws/ordinances. I asked the city which law they wanted me to violate. They’re running it by their lawyers—and promised to get back! Will report herein .

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I’m not sure of any other state but It is illegal to wear any kind of mask in NC while carrying openly or concealed. I have not found anything that says anything different during this time and masks are becoming mandatory in a lot of areas, and possibly soon, the entire state of NC. What can we do in this situation?

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@Ann - Double check your state statutes about wearing a mask for medical purposes. There are a fair number of states that do allow for the wearing of masks for medical purposes while carrying.

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Wearing of masks in NC are generally illegal but there are significant exceptions, see North Carolina General Statutes Chapter 14. Criminal Law § 14-12.11 | FindLaw.

North Carolina recognizes the defenses of necessity and duress.

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So, just to muddy the waters a bit, and this really if it comes down to a jury of your peers, IF you choose to wear a mask while carrying, it would probably be helpful to wear a mask that all people would consider “safe (such as the N95 I see referenced).” That means like the meme up above, probably best to stay away from skull, punisher, probably even camo, etc. What you are looking to do is to prevent people from assuming intent from appearances. We as gun owners are already fighting a war of appearances and perceptions on so many levels. Legally, should it matter? NO, it shouldnt, but that is not always the world we live in.

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This is a bit off topic but you raise a great point. We as citizens have some power when it comes to jury trials. While a person may have violated the letter of the law I feel the spirit and intent of the law is equally important. I would never vote to convict in such a situation. That’s probably why I’ve never been asked to serve on a jury.

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Thank you. Still very confusing. I have been trying to figure this out since Gov Cooper said he was strongly considering a state mandate on masks. I don’t want to violate ANY laws and have no defense.

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Until you get into the medical grade masks (like the N95) you are not wearing the mask to protect yourself. it is to protect others you come in contact with.

In MOST cases if you never get within the 6 foot barrier for more than 15 seconds a mask is not a necessity (Dont let the government tell you otherwise).

Once you get to the N95 (or above) these masks are meant to protect other AND the wearer. In Wisconsin an employer can not issue an N95 mask without proper training and a sign off by the wearer.

Just like gun legislation our politicians do NOT know the facts when it comes to masks. It seems (like with most things) we the people need to educate ourselves and then WE much educate the politicians because most of them are to busy trying to stay in office to actually learn anything about what they are voting on.

Don

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They have not arrested any of the masked Protesters OR LOOTERS!!!
But, they took down a Retired LEO playing catch with his daughter???
What the hell is that???
I’d suggest to be ready with your Driver’s License and CCW as the Officer approaches you.
If you immediately identify yourself… How can you be wearing a mask to hide your identity???

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