9mm and 38/357. I had to get rid of my .45 as too heavy to carry a big one and too hard to control a light one. Current carry is a 38 spl revolver and a Keltec P32 bug. I am old and a situation would probably be up close and very personal. I need a gun that wont go out of battery if I have to push it against an adversary. 9mm because I have PCC’s in 9mm with matching handguns. It is a good all around caliber. That said I would not feel unarmed with a 22lr. 22lr is a very under rated cartridge.
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Good video, I still carry .45. I carry 45 mainly cause I just love the shield 45 
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You could kill a bear with a knife too but, Do you want to try?
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I also stated I would prefer my 12 gauge with Brenneke slugs.
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I’ve been watching John Lovells Pistol 1 course on WPSN to try to go over fundamentals. He made a really good case for 9mm. Claimed to know a former LEO who got shot in the teeth with 45 and is still walking around today.
Shot placement was of course his big argument. He was talking about CNS shots being the only real way to get someone to drop with pistol calibers and 9mm is easier to do that with.
I guess my thought is if you are going to get shot in the body, 45 is bigger, but with 9mm you would probably be able to get more shots in the target. 9mm seems to expand almost as wide as 45 though.
I carry 45 and really love shooting the shield 45. I’ve been carrying it daily for almost a year now, but I’m considering switching to my full size 9mm once ammo comes back full swing (whenever that is).
As for now, I’ve been able to find lots of 45 and I have good amount of 45 JHP.
I think the last part of your statement is where the rubber hits the road, on .45 vs 9. Right now, your carrying a Shield. The Shield 9 only carries 1 more round than the .45. So, in similar sized handguns, that make small holes to leak blood out of, why not make the biggest “small” hole possible.
Going to your full-size, now your 18 rounds vs 11. Now, the 9 wins because of the 7 more opportunities to make said holes. Unless you look at guns like the FNX 45 Tactical, which is 16 rounds(15+1), then I’d give advantages back to the flying ashtrays. But that’s s just my humble opinion.
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I agree with you on everything you said. This quote is also a key factor. I’m a big fan of the Shield Platform (probably cause my first gun was a Shield). I simply like the Shield 45 more than the 9mm. I bought it really to be a back up gun and a range toy chambered in .45, but I loved it so much I just started carrying it (I’m not alone, I’ve read online and many shield guys do the same)
I’ll probably be sticking with the Shield 45 because I have consistently carried it for almost a year now, and it is the gun I have the most range time with now (those two factors are probably more important than Caliber).
I do own a S&W full size 9 4.25”. I’m tempted to try to carry that, BUT it is a bigger gun, and it is easier to clip on that shield 45. What’s tempting about it is the length of the grip is just slightly longer than the Shield 45 Extended mag (how I’ve been carrying recently). So, the only real difference that will change with carry is width of the gun and weight with the extra rounds. The gun also feels like a pea shooter after shooting the 45 so much 
. That also being said, it may work its way to being my home defense gun because I think it will be a better option for my wife over my full size 40 with a safety (9mm doesn’t have a safety).
IMHO Biased Opinion, the shield 45 is the best 45 caliber polymer carry gun. It has an extra round than the XDS, they managed to make the gun really thin.
Your right @Joseph202, the 22LR is very under rated. I’ve been carrying a Beretta 21A Bobcat in 22LR as a backup for many year’s, and sometimes primary. A good 22LR pistol with the right ammo won’t let you down. It’s the well placed shot that stops the fight.
@Joseph202 The 22LR is very under rated. Not trying to start a best caliber conversation just information to let people know more on the 22LR. Take a look at this Youtube video on 9mm vs 22LR it’s worth watching.
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Jerry, Here’s the problem with statements like this…there are variables YOU aren’t considering. type of round (JHP, FMJ, etc), caliber, where the round struck the person, what organs were hit and how vital were they, etc. I’ve personally seen a person shot with a .45 and the SOB still charged at the person who shot him. I’ve also heard from friends in LE about seeing a guy drop like a leaf from getting shot with a .25. Thomas Principe was known as the “.22 caliber killer”. So, this assertion that one .357 or .45 are better than another round is purely speculative. ANY caliber can drop a person if the round placement is correct.
Sure the .45 and .357 cause lots of damage, we have tons of ballistic information to prove it. I just can’t stand this assertion that they are the “best” because it’s purely speculative. Heck, old time mobsters used to use .22’s to murder people quite often. Don’t think the 9mm is effective? Tell that to our military teams who used the good ole suppressed MP5s and berretta & Sig 9mm to drop people quickly. I guess when it comes down to it, give me an accurately placed shot of ANY caliber any day.
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Yes Sir, you also have an excellent point, which I agree with. This is a tough one to answer online as many a book has been written with no resolution. Your point below is spot on
“there are variables YOU aren’t considering. type of round (JHP, FMJ, etc), caliber, where the round struck the person, what organs were hit and how vital were they, etc.”
There-in, no one should pick a side and dig their heels in…there are just too many variables and factors for someone like me to claim any kind of authority. My first clarification and one which is most paramount…“I agree that “Shot Placement” is the #1 most important factor”. Second, do not misinterpret my appreciation of the 9mm round It is an excellent defensive round. Simple put it is just not my personal choice. When dealing with topics such as these things; it gets very personal and based on what we were raised on (which can change) Experiences can both aid and hinder our perceptions. Therefore the most important part is continuing to debate, discuss, shoot and learn. Sometimes it’s good to poke the badger!
I have read a paper that outlines how the little 22lr is very lethal due to several factors such as its ability to bounce around in the skull after penetration, it’s tendency to yaw and tumble or explode violently against bone, it expends 100% of its energy on large targets. But also, it is most effective only at close range, it is rather slow to incapacitate/kill. It’s record as an immediate one shot stopper is very low.
So, there are no bad calibers, but just keep exploring the history and data both new and old. Thanks for keeping me thinking and learning…you gave me some things to think about.
Keep your powder dry and stay safe!
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Thank you. You as well Sir. 
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I always forget to bring this up in caliber debates. Greg Ellefritz’s study on handgun stopping power (the whole thread has similar info to this one). The link below has a Youtube video which helps explain the data and the article.
The bottom line is almost all handgun duty calibers required about the same numbers of shots “to stop” the threat. Which is almost 2 shots on average. If you want a “one shot stop” you need a rifle or even better a shotgun.
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@Harvey I had forgotten about that one also and several others that would irritate some here.
Go to Rational Preps on YT.
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Thought this was a cool photo.
The article talks about how the 9mm and 45 are actually really close, but the comment section has people saying there is clearly a difference.
Edit (To be fair, the author favors 45).
I like 45 more, 
.
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This debate will rage on as long as we are allowed to own pistols. The true arbiter of the argument is shot placement and the lethality of that placement.Everybody wants to train to “center mass” and that is a good premise. There is lots of stuff in the center of the body that will stop an average human in a couple seconds BUT there is an awful lot of stuff in there that will cause you to die hours or days later. Hours or days is a LOT of fight back time. I have been fighting to untrain myself from the Mozambique Drill to the Balzambique drill.
Mozambique is of course two rounds center mass and one well aimed head shot.
Balzambique is two rounds to the pelvis and one well aimed head shot (I prefer shoulder junction).
Why would you shoot someone in the pelvis you ask. Its about anatomy. If you fracture the pelvis (and don’t hit anything vital ) the person is going to sit down right now and try very hard not to move because a fractured pelvis is devastatingly painful. The other reason is the pelvis forms a bowl and inside that bowl are two BIG blood pipes (Aorta & Vena Cava) that separate (bifurcate is the correct medical term) into FOUR pretty big blood pipes that run down the legs that are are direct feeds from the heart. Additionally the abdomen can handle a lot more blood volume than the chest can before the pressures equalize.
In other words you have a significantly higher probability to punch a hole in one of those two or four pipes with a boolit bouncing around a cage than you do in the chest where you have even odds of a through and through not hitting anything vital.
Why do I say shoulder junction? Again anatomy. The very first time I did a brow lift in surgery I was AMAZED at how thick the skin, muscle and fat surrounding the skull was. It ranges from 7/8" to 1/2" depending on age and such. I know rap your knuckles on your noggin and you swear it’s right there. Not so much. So for averages sake lets say the human head is 7" wide at the cheek bones and you just lost 1.5" due to the above. You are now shooting at a 4.5 " target. Then there is the whole curve of the skull thing so lets say you end up with a 3" wide box to work with. The frontal bone of the skull is only about an 1 1/2" tall before it starts to curve. Anybody want to bet the farm of a 3" x 1 1/2" target when you sphincter is wrapped around your neck?
Nope. At the junction of the shoulders to the neck is a nice big meaty area that again as FOUR good size blood pipes going directly to the BRAIN in it along with the spinal cord. It is roughly 4" wide and 8" tall, anywhere in there will net a lethal hit or a one shot stop if you hit the spine which is very unprotected in the front of the neck.
Now here is the practical problem. Most ranges have lets say 25 yards and a concrete floor. If you start doing Balzambique drills at 3 - 7 yards they are going to toss your butt off the range and send you a hefty bill for concrete repairs. Outdoor ranges will also frown upon it. The fix is to take your B24 targets and fold them and hang them high. Or simply put 3" dots 30" apart vertically and practice two low, one high. The end result is to make your shots as lethal as possible in the shortest amount of time possible to stop the threat or to make them as debilitating as possible in the shortest amount of time to stop the threat.
If I had to train for one shot it would be the T cross at the junction of the shoulders and the neck. If you get ANY boolit in there it will stop the fight. Either the pipe will be preforated of the arms will stop working because you hit the collar bone.
Cheers,
Craig6
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It’s funny, I always hear people say “Shot placement is more important than caliber”. So I started a topic on shot placement. Most of us are all trained to poke holes in center mass. If I’m poking holes to peak oil, I want bigger bullets.
The advantage of 9mm is most people shoot it better, and you can do faster follow up shots. There is merit to this, BUT after the conversation of shot placement, I like my 45. I got 15 rounds of 45 to poke the biggest holes I can get on target.
Also, I think 40 is a great round, but it’s very snappy, .45 is a heavy recoil pulse, but it’s extremely manageable (I’ve read this a lot on the internet especially when it comes to the Shield 40 vs 45). Maybe slightly slower follow up shots, but the bullets are larger 
.
In the debate of 9mm vs 45 it all seems to just even out. 45 makes me feel all tingly inside though.
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Now if that 45 would just come out at 1200fps…
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Ask, and he shall receive. I carry these in the warmer months. Better expansion, less penetration. I go back to the same thing, in 230 grain during the colder months.
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Nobody has mentioned the .454 Casull. At least 3 zombies per round. Maybe 6-7 AntiFa. What a bargain! Ammo cost about the same as 9mm and .454 is actually available…
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