I agree. Pepper spray is the ideal non-lethal concealed carry weapon. I have two canisters, one I carry on my walks and another in my ‘around town’ carry bag. Florida is anal when it comes to allowances, so 2oz. is the limit, but better than nothing. I have not used the spray yet, but the brand is REDD and has a cone-shaped spray. Has a flip-top and a rather stout bottle, but still fits in a pocket. My main concern was grip. I have hand-issues, so the grip is almost perfect for my hands and easy to lift the top and aim. Too small and you could lose your grip.
5 Likes
I bought a 3-pack of tactical pens without checking if TSA would allow them. So, not bringing to trips. I found a cheap Zebra brand metal pen at Walmart that fits your suggestion.
4 Likes
The Pilot brand G2 pen also works will in this application.
My Daughter is a Girly Girl and probably wouldn’t go for this unless she could find it with pink paracord.
2 Likes
Welcome @Daniel575
2 Likes
The Basics: The Law in Wisconsin on pepper spray. And, we do not have Stand Your Ground but do have Castle Doctrine.
- Pepper spray canisters must be less than 2 oz.
- Pepper spray must be 10% or less O.C. (Oleoresin Capsicum) concentration.
- Pepper spray cannot be disguised as a common item (i.e. lipsticks, pens, etc.).
- Must be a minimum of 18 years old.
- Cannot have any convicted felonies on record.
- [NOTE] Stun guns are not legal to use, carry or ship to Wisconsin.
1 Like
@Daniel575 Welcome to the community!
1 Like
I wonder does this cover the Byrna CO2 pellet pistol…I need to look into that.
Hi @BruceE, some info from one of the USCCA attorneys here in the state regarding the Byrna:
Short Answer: Buy Beware - Illegal Tear Gas, and Risk of Unreasonable Force
Of the chemical irritant ammunition, the variety that has only OC (Oleoresin Capsicum, a/k/a pepper spray) is legal; the other variety “Max” is not, because those balls contain both OC and “tear gas” (CS in powder, not gel form).
He goes on to say…
Even if the Max balls were reformulated to contain the legal CS gel, both the chemical and the “Kinetic Projectiles” (plastic balls) could still likely expose their user to serious legal liability (civil and criminal) if they exceed the privilege of self-defense. Because chemical irritants work by direct contact with mucous membranes (eye, nose, throat), to be most effective, the user would need to fire the projectiles to explode into the attacker’s face. Multiple law enforcement officers have told this author that they are trained to shoot at the attacker’s chest and/or a wall/ground, with the intent that on impact, the chemical projectiles spread a cloud that can contact to the attacker’s eyes/nose/throat area. But this good aim presupposes sufficient training and experience; in the heat of the moment, with fear and adrenaline pumping and less-than-ideal environmental conditions (dark, rainy/foggy, etc.), the shooter may not hit the attacker’s chest but the face. It is one thing to spray OC into an attacker’s eyes/nose/mouth; the person sprayed feels intense burning, but there is not blunt force impact trauma. It is something else to shoot a large round projectile, even one designed to burst into a cloud of smoke, at 330 fps into someone’s face. It is something entirely next level to shoot a hard, solid plastic ball advertised as capable of breaking auto glass at 30 feet into someone’s face.
Especially when fired into a person’s face, there is a real risk of “great bodily harm,” defined in Wisconsin law as “bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily injury.” Wis. Stat. § 939.22(14). If the projectile hits the eye, for instance, there could be permanent or protracted loss or impairment of sight; if the projectile hits the mouth, there could be fractured teeth. In comparison, Wisconsin courts have held that a pump pellet rifle was a “dangerous weapon” per Wis. Stat. § 939.22(10), capable of producing great bodily harm, both as a compressed air weapon and, even when unloaded, a bludgeon. Rafferty v. State, 29 Wis. 2d 470, 138 N.W.2d 741 (1966).5
Indeed, “less-lethal” projectiles are capable of inflicting not just great bodily harm, but also death. In 2004, after the Boston Red Sox defeated the Yankees, the Boston Police tried to control an unruly crowd outside Fenway Park with “less-lethal” projectiles. A police officer shot an innocent bystander, Victoria Snelgrove (a college student), in the eye with a “less-lethal” pepper projectile, killing her.6 Under standard Wisconsin law of reasonable force, the privilege of self-defense would apply only if the person reasonably believed that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself. Wis. Stat. § 939.48(1).
In other words brother… I probably wouldn’t take the civil or criminal problems that may occur. And if the weapons don’t work, you are still in trouble.
3 Likes
@ Tom206
Thanks for the info. It seems self-defense in WI is a more slippery slope than I had first imagined. The Byrna is out of the question anyway for my Daughter because it looks too similar to a “REAL” firearm. She doesn’t want to be a police shooting victim because her orange, less than lethal tear gas gun looks like the real thing.
The knife issue is another ball of wax in itself in WI. While it is legal to own and carry, there is the clause “unless used as a weapon” that bothers me. If I get my Daughter a knife to defend herself and she does use it in a defensive manner, she will be using it as a weapon and will be violating the law.
It’s a Catch-22. Don’t defend yourself and get mugged/raped/kidnapped/murdered or defend yourself and go to jail for the rest of your life and possibly get mugged/raped/kidnapped/murdered in prison. WTF???
If it were not for the fact she actually has a good job up there, I would make a mad dash up through the core states and drag her young self back to Texas.
6 Likes
At least on the topic of knives for self-defense, WI is inferior compared to CA. 
looks like I’d settle for pepper spray during my week there.
3 Likes
That is precisely why I think Byrna can be a very good choice for home defense for those not able or willing to deal with killing someone who needs killing, but should never be carried for self defense in the general public arena.
3 Likes
@BruceE “It’s a Catch-22. Don’t defend yourself and get mugged/raped/kidnapped/murdered or defend yourself and go to jail for the rest of your life and possibly get mugged/raped/kidnapped/murdered in prison. WTF???” That’s about the size of it here.
CC is ok, with a license. But, the only way to really be safe is avoiding anything that has any chance of going bad. If you would like to call sometime and talk, or if your daughter wants what I suspect is a local number for any help at all, happy to give that to you. I can also provide info on areas to stay away from. Your call.
1 Like
Um, Maybe the ‘Old School’ way is the best. “Officer, I just bought this Bat for my Daddy and was
going to box it up and send it to him”… Could Happen? What?
4 Likes
My wife, girls, and I all carry these. Look it up on youtube to see how they function.
3 Likes
Hear you, helping to maintain distance. I like the one which shoots as a straight line, almost gel like, some out to 20’.
Read somewhere, for some states, having a FOID and or a CCL Carry Permit, legally allows carry of a mace/pepper spray. So for some, even if the choose to not yet own a firearm, it may allow them to legally carry “the hot sauce”. Then later in life, if they ever needed to purchase a firearm, they can legally.
I had a FOID card for years, just to be legal storing grandpa’s 75 year old rifle, before I even bought my own.
Does bring to mind, broader view, such as avoiding danger, defense at a distance, but then just in case close quarters, having another layer of protection there as well, either and EDC and or martial arts.
Does hit home when a parent shares wanting to help protect their son or daughter.
1 Like
Do you have a recommendation for an effective self-defense Byrna model for home use? I looked into this about a year ago for outside carry, but was not convinced they would be very effective in any kind of wind or when dealing with someone hyped up on drugs?
I have not studied Byrna products in detail so can make no recommendations. However, when I look at home defense, I am talking about needing to deal with a threat inside the home, not outside. Thus, there will be no wind problem, at all. If there is someone outside my home and I am inside and the doors and windows are secure, there is no imminent threat, so I have no need to shoot. if they are breaking in AND indicate lethal threat, I will shoot as they enter… no wind. If they are inside the home, I am retreating to a safe room, ready to shoot them if they try to break in there; I am not going to “clear” the house.
The only situation that comes to mind that I might need to shoot someone outside while I am inside is if I can see them trying to burn my house, knowing it is occupied. That is definitely an imminent, deadly threat; i will respond accordingly, with a long gun if I have time to fetch it, otherwise with a pistol.
1 Like
Yep, exactly what I was thinking. No breeze to deal with in an interior. The Byrna makes good sense for interior threats. An additional advantage is that you wouldn’t have to worry about missed rounds going through drywall, etc… and something tragic happening. Among every other ‘con’ of firearm use, this is the one thing that is always front and center on my mind. We are human, no matter our firearms skills, and in the heat of a real-time incident and other factors (stress, low light, precipitation)… It only takes one missed round to result in a life-changing event.
1 Like
How well do Byrna hold up in a lethal gun fight? That would be my concern.
Byrna offers several options for cartridges, some of which are not legal in every state. The concern is can a Byrna cartridge incapacitate an attacker immediately?
I do not know the answer, but I do know that a nominally lethal bullet will not incapacitate immediately unless it hits a vital point oni the body. Therefore, both marksmanship and multiple rounds come into play.
A Byrna is definitely better than nothing, and getting hit with even a more benign Byrna cartridge shot may dissuade an attacker from continuing (emphasis on may).
My choices are OC spray for non-lethal, and 9mm for lethal. We each have to make our own choices.
4 Likes