Today I saw an adjustable AR pistol brace at my local gun shop and the way I see it is that it’s indistinguishable from a regular AR buttstock. As a matter of fact, you can even put an AR rifle adjustable buttstock on it. My dealer says that it’s still legal, but I’m not sure. Has anyone seen these? Are they within ATF guidelines for an AR pistol? It seems to me that it would be considered a sbr, but my dealer (he’s reputable and a cop, but not ATF) swears it’s kosher.
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There was a ruling that came out in 2017 that stated that the “brace” of a pistol is not considered part of the overall length nor is the flash suppressor as they are considered to be accessories. Which means according to the ATF letter I read your pistol from buffer tube end to muzzle end must be less than 26" but that your brace & flash hider can make it’s over all length longer. Haven’t seen and adjustable brace yet but I imagine it would be ok, the adjust-ability of it has nothing to do with making a brace a stock. Not sure if I would put a regular stock on a pistol though as I believe that is specifically addressed in the definition of a pistol.
Cheers,
Craig6
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Ok, thanks for the info. My dealer said that you can change out the pistol brace with a regular AR buttstock and put a rifle upper on it so that you can use the same lower with minimal modifications for a rifle or a pistol upper.
Wish I had known that before I bought the current buffer tube and brace because it was about the same price as the adjustable one.
Thanks again for the clarification.
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@Jason2 STOP!!!
Do NOT put a rifle upper on a pistol lower or a pistol upper on a rifle lower!!! EVER, NOT EVEN FOR A SECOND.
The fact that your dealer said that has me questioning what the he!! he is thinking and NOW makes me question the adjustable blade idea. I KNOW this sounds stupid, but it is the law. If you put a rifle upper on a pistol lower you have just created an NFA firearm. If you put a pistol upper on a rifle lower you have just created an NFA firearm. You cannot change out butt stocks and slap a rifle upper on your pistol lower and now call it a rifle.
Cheers,
Craig6
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See, that’s what I was thinking, but the adjustable pistol tube/brace is virtually identical to a regular rifle tube/buttstock from what I could see. Maybe the adjustable pistol brace doesn’t adjust as far out lengthwise as an adjustable rifle buttstock? Idk, I didn’t actually ask the owner, which is who I usually deal with. I was talking to his son that works there, but we put the rifle buttstock on the adjustable pistol brace tube and switched out the pistol upper with a rifle upper (I spent a lot of time there today, lol) and it was indistinguishable from another rifle that was on the wall lengthwise. Idk, this is why I posted to ask you guys (& gals) about it. I’m questioning if the adjustable pistol brace is legal, but they’re for sale all over the internet too. Maybe it depends on the length of the barrel of the pistol as to whether it’s legal or not? I know one thing for sure, I’m not asking for clarification from the ATF bc it’ll screw us all if it is legal and they decide to change it!
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@Jason2 So I did some research they are making ATF legal adjustable pistol braces the key word and tricky phrase is the LOP (Length Of Pull) on a pistol must be LESS THAN 13.5" measured from the trigger to the end of the brace. Yes you can shoot it from the shoulder. I looked at the KAK Shockwave Blade 2.0 and it has a proprietary buffer tube so that the last adjustment does not exceed a Length Of Pull (LOP) 13.5" . A standard Mil-Spec buffer tube will not stop at 13.5" and a Butt Stock is, well a stock.
On another note. You were witness to at least TWO NFA violations today. 1. Putting a rifle upper on a “manufactured pistol” 2. Putting a “Butt stock” on a pistol. I would consider a polite quiet conversation with the shop owner before “Junior” does that in front of a LEO, so Dad can slap him around and make him read and understand the laws.
The over all length of a pistol must be less than 26", in this case, from the end of the installed buffer tube to the end of the muzzle (not including flash hider) and has no bearing on an adjustable brace but the LOP MUST be LESS than 13.5" at it’s full extension. FWIW I now have to go check the LOP on my KAK non-adjustable Blade.
Cheers,
Craig6
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Ok, thank you for the information. That solves that mystery. I am kind of disappointed that I can’t swap out the brace with a buttstock though. A cop would have to actually really be out to get you to measure it though because it looked exactly like a carbine when he swapped the buttstock and the upper. They were the same length with both in the shortest position. I would never take the chance though because I wouldn’t want to lose my Right. The funny thing is that there was a city cop right there when we were fooling around with it and he didn’t even know. I’ll let the guy know he was wrong next time I go in, probably Friday.
Thanks again for the clarification.
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@Jason2 The AR-Pistol thing is new for a lot of people, even me and I have been working on and carrying
“Rat Guns” for more years than I like to admit. The NFA laws are pretty specific and if you are going to go down the road of an AR pistol you need to be on the right side of the law and you need to know what the laws are. Right now an adjustable BRACE is a legal thing that you can actually shoulder should you wish to. If you really want an SBR pay your $200 and get the tax stamp then you can put whatever stock on your lower and what ever upper on your lower and carry on smartly.
Cheers,
Craig6
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Thanks, that’s why I was asking. I knew someone on here would know. Right now I have a pistol with a rubber brace that’s not adjustable. I’m assuming that you can shoulder the pistol with a regular brace like I have on mine if you can shoulder the adjustable one too, would that be right? I honestly thought that shouldering an AR pistol was a no-no, but if I think about it, there’s that kit by Roni you can use with a Glock that has a shoulder brace. That’s essentially the same thing as a pistol with a shoulder brace.
I think the ATF and federal government in general has no business making meaningless and arbitrary rules and laws concerning firearms. Then again, I’m of the belief that the government has been violating the 2nd amendment since 1934 when they passed the 1st gun control laws and through mis-interpretation, re-interpretation and mis-representation gun grabbing politicians and judges have bastardized the spirit and true meaning and purpose of the 2nd amendment. That’s a whole different conversation though.
Again, thank you for taking the time and effort to look this up for me, it’s appreciated brother.
Thanks,
Jason
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This is incorrect. You can put a rifle upper on a numbered pistol lower, but not a pistol on a lowered numbered as a rifle.
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Pete25 welcome to our community! Glad to have you here!!
“That’s just a little bit more than the law will allow”
Waylon Jennings
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/pistol-braces-what-are-they-and-are-they-legal/
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/atf-pistol-brace-ban/
And an AR15 style rifle with a 14.5" barrel plus a permanently attached (pin/weld, etc) muzzle device that’s 1.6" long is virtually identical to an AR15 style short barrel rifle with a 14.5" barrel plus a merely rockset’d muzzle device that’s 1.6" long
Nobody ever claimed gun control laws were logical, effective, or easy to understand and follow
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Does a shorter barrel or a pistol brace make a gun more deadly? I have an SBR and a few AR-15s along with an AR-9 with pistol braces on them I have yet to come home to lock up my everyday carry to not find even one of my guns, even the SBR and guns with pistol braces on them, attacking or “assaulting” anyone. It’s almost as if they are inanimate objects until someone picks them up and decides to use them for good or evil.
You see, it’s on the person, not the gun. I would not be opposed to harsh penalties for people who fail to secure their firearms where no one else can get to them and use them in nefarious ways. You can be sure that mine are locked away until ready for use, and by ready for use I mean on my body or in my quick access safe near my bed. I’m so vigilant about safety because I have two children, 12 and 11, and they’ve been taught gun safety and marksmanship since they were old enough to hold a gun. They know gun safety better than most adults and they will call them out I they screw up!. My kids have their own guns, a pellet rifle, a 22 cal and a 410 shotgun. They can keep the pellet guns in their rooms, but the others go in the safe.
I don’t believe that the government, federal or state, can infringe upon our Right of the people to bear arms. It’s in the 2nd amendment of the Constitution. The government has been violating the 2nd amendment since 1934 with the National Firearms Act and every “gun control law” that has followed. The ATF is an Unconstitutional and illegal entity that can “reinterpret” existing laws to fit their agenda and needs. They can basically turn law abiding citizens into felons overnight with a rule change or “reinterpretation”, bypassing Congress in doing so. This is tyrannical and this is why they’re trying to take your guns!
The sbr restrictions are supposedly a result of the NFA trying to actually include pistols and the “compromise” was to make sure rifles couldn’t be made too easily concealable. Or something like that
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You have to remember, the NFA was passed at a time when men wore trench coats and were able to fully hide a rifle in those coats.