Dang, that’s a real story that’ll make you think.
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I’ve heard him speak, it sends chills down your spine. I believe Carry Trainer has an interview with him either on YouTube or their podcast.
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I’ll look for it
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Unless your using a 460. 250 grain bullet leaving a hand cannon at 2100 FPS. That’s a whole lotta thump.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist since that particular 45 is the king of the hill, second only to 500 mag. 
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Would they be upset if I brought my bevy of Glocks to the academy?
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@Raymond - Not at all. Students can use any pistol make they want as long as it meets the prerequisites listed for the particular course. I’ve see Glocks, H&Ks, and more when I have trained there.
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9mm is the best. Most Police Dept ate going back to it. FBI uses it.
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I know …late to this particular posting but…having a few 9mm pistols that I LOVE shooting (Glock G45, Canik Tp9, Springfield, newest sig Sauer P365) all shoot great, differently but great all the same. I had a M&Ps shield in .40 and I hated shooting that gun. The recoil was unreal and very tough to get back on target. Being such a small gun my thoughts were that “this might be good in 9mm but .40 was too much for that gun”…traded it in on the glock g45. Now having boxes of .40 rounds without having anything to load them into…hmmm…research…testing rental firearms etc. After a lot of looking and firing and asking questions and having enjoyed the sig P365 so much I settled in on the sig sp2022 in .40. It was made for .40 not a .40 barrel in a 9mm.
Rented for a couple of days at the range. Really liked the da/sa hammer fire set up. Liked the cock and fire sa and having the long draw da has REALLY helped my trigger mechanics on all of the fire arms I have.
The recoil in .40 that I was expecting, remembering the shield, was non existent there was recoil but nothing like the smaller firearm. It was a real pleasure and a lot of fun to shoot. The Sig Sauer sp2022 is now a part of my collection and I kind of smile every time I shoot it because of the price and the stability, accuracy and over all “goodness” of that particular firearm. Still love my glock and canik and Springfield for sure but the sig hangs with them all and in some ways I think outshines a couple. Just my opinion though.
All that to say the ballistics that improved the 9mm also improved the .40. Arguing over which is better is kind of useless to my mind. Both are great rounds and both are good for defense. I have read a ton on it and as was said earlier it will make your head spin to see/hear all the opinions. Opinions tho I find can be like arm pits. Everyone has em and some need right guard. Hope that wasn’t an offense to anyone in saying that. Just another opinion that might need some right guard LOL.
Anyway shoot what you are most comfortable with and can shoot well and be on target and can afford then practice, practice, practice.
Love these boards and the great interaction here. All of you are a great bunch of likeminded people.
Sorry so long. Just felt a little back story might be helpful.
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I was following this debate back in the day. It was a bank rober shootout but it was in Florida just outside or in Dade county. The FBI were outgunned because of the two suspects having a Mini 14 and 357 mag. But the smaller agents and the handguns designed for the 10mm made it a bad choice.
The Guys in LA had full body armor and what was reported to be HK-91 and Bushmasters modified to full automatic. The officers had to borrow ARs from a local sporting goods store to relieve pinned down officers. I watched the whole thing back in 1997 transfixed on TV as it happened. Even the ARs couldn’t penetrate the body armor.
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I like the 9mm over the .40 cal…in my opinion the 9mm is the best all around caliber. The 40 cal are built in 9mm frames, 40 is more snappy than 9mm and the 40 is a high pressure round which is shot though the gun on every trigger pull, even in plinking rounds, the only time you may shot a 9 mm+P is in your defensive rounds. That’s why the 40 has been nick named the Smith & Breaker because the guns wear out faster and 9mm doesn’t wear out.
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I have heard people say the .40 will break or wear the frame but that has not been my experience. I bought a S&W 4006 when they first came out (I got mine in 1990, still one of my favorites) that gun is still working perfectly today with no issues, and a lot of ammo put through it. I also have a H&K USP40 that I bought in '94, same story, no issues after all these years of regular use. I have always felt that the .40 is the perfect compromise between the 9mm and the .45, but I also love 16 ga shotguns so maybe it is just me?
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Mathematically, the .40 S&W is 1.16 better than the 9mm. 
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Like most things in life…It depends. I drank the kool-aid in the 80’s. The .40 S&W is a good caliber in the right bullet weight and especially Ammo manufacturer. This depends largely on what the particular firearm along with what the shooter can tolerate. I have tested light for caliber and heavy for caliber in .40 S&W. The .40 is snappy to me in light for caliber 150-155 Gr. whether in a Full, Compact, or Subcompact firearm. Heavy for caliber 180 Gr. in my history has varied from a defined impulse to pleasant (Different Manufacturers) allowing for quick follow ups. Oh Goldilocks!! The 165 Gr. has proven accurate for me in all firearms. The recoil impulse is smooth and to me compares to the 124 Gr. 9mm. It is primarily used for range as well as Carry.
As of 2018 I got the itch to get back into 9mm shooting. Did you know there is a cornucopia of selections out there? We are living in the Golden Age of firearms right now. I landed on a Compact firearm. Notice I do not refer to brand here. All pistols are like shoes everyone of them is different. Guess what? 9mm has come along way. The greatest amount of improvement has occurred in recent years in 9mm caliber. Light for load is getting lighter than 115Gr. and Heavy 147 Gr. Well, it’s hard to keep up with. I fall into the 124 Gr. camp on shooting 9mm.
Now for cost, I buy in bulk. Min 350-1000 rounds per caliber. Translation I watch for sales and rebates (factory). I price out by the round. I’ve noticed that for range ammo there is about $.05 per round difference of .40 S&W over 9mm. Let’s not forget reloads. Be careful who you trust on reloads. It is a Logic tree… Buy a 100-150 rounds exercise the firearms. Check function and accuracy, etc. Go back and buy a 1000 if all checks out.
There are fantastic deals in both calibers for factory and unbelievable deals for reloads. I tend to in .40 purchase anywhere from .15-.20 per round factory. 9mm is the low is .12-.17 per round. I like a deal, keep a certain amount of stock on hand and buy when the price is right. Don’t forget if ordering online, to factor in Applicable Tax and Shipping in the price per round. I admit getting excited to see a good sale to get my hopes dashed by Tax and Shipping. I adhere primarily to these 2 calibers.
In my carry rotation I carry both calibers from several manufacturers. All are tools and serve their roll for the intended purpose. Yes just like a bunch of kids they have personalities and there are favorites among them.
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The .40 S&W delivers more energy on target than either the .45acp or 9mm.
It’s higher capacity than the .45 as well and in most platforms has a considerably smaller grip diameter that allows it to fit most people’s hands better.
I’m still a huge fan of the .45acp and own quite a few of them but real world testing on big pigs convinced me that of the three the .40 S&W delivers considerably better performance than either of the others.
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I’ve seen no data at all from any reliable source to support that.
According to the SAMMI spec’s the two rounds operate at almost identical pressures.
Have you got any links you can provide?
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Don’t forget though, that comes at a cost. 45 is a low pressure round, .40 is a high pressure round. That will add accelerated wear to the gun. Watch this too. It shows the difference in power is negligible, and in some ammo .45 will outpower .40(+p .45)
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You are correct the .45acp IS a low pressure round.
It is also a much heavier and heavier recoiling round.
I have yet to see any data showing that running standard loads through any of the three shows any significant difference in failures due to wear and tear.
The guns are each built to stand the “load” they are designed to handle.
I’ve heard this thrown around by a lot of youtube/internet experts but not from any actual testing.
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Guns built specifically for the 40, yes. I believe the problem is in the “upconverted” guns. Guns that were designed for 9mm, and then the manufacturer based their 40 S&W on the same gun. Also, all things being equal, as equal as can be I.e. bullet weight, no +p rounds etc, .45 is slightly more powerful.
The difference is negligible. So, the trade is higher capacity, for arguments sake we’ll say 10(.45) vs 13(.40) and slightly more recoil(45), vs making bigger holes. I don’t feel undergunned with my 45, and wouldn’t with a 40 in the same size gun. I like’m both
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Yeah, and you can convert them to .357 Sig too!
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The Reasons Why FBI Went to Back to 9mm
The Arms Guide Guest Writer | 08.08.2018
Justification
FBI Training Division: FBI Academy, Quantico, VA
Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners
· Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades
· Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore
· Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best
· In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high incident likelihood of succeeding for LEOs in a shooting incident
· Handgun stopping power is simply a myth
· The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)
· LEOs miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident
· Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)
· 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
· 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
· The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
· There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
· Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers.
https://loadoutroom.com/51037/the-reasons-why-fbi-went-to-back-to-9mm/
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