FBI 1986 Miami Dade Shooting: An Analysis. - YouTube check this out, it’s a pretty cool analysis.
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@James @45IPAC , y’all aren’t talking about the North Hollywood shootout in 1997 are you? that’d be the Los Angeles version of LA. Body armor was a big problem for the police in that one, and the officers were armed with 9mm and .38s
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I’m referring to the 1986 Miami-Dade shootout between the bank robbers and the FBI.
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I like that one. Paul Harrell’s channel is great.
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I meant the Miami Dade shootout, but referenced that one. That one led the LAPD to carry .45s for a while, I think.
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@James It did. Prior to that just their SWAT team had .45s.
My hubby used to train a lot of the Los Angeles area police departments… The week before that shootout, the North Hollywood police had declined his offer to train them. The day after, they called and said “come train us, and any officer who can’t pass your course is on suspension until he does.”
During the event one of the other area police departments that was called in to backup the N.Hollywood division called him and asked if they could come borrow some items out of his safe since they didn’t have anything high-power enough to get the job done. They knew him because he’d been training them for a while.
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That’s crazy that it took them getting shot up to want training. Does he do training anymore?
@James not much lately - he shoots for fun, but he’s had a couple of really bad health years and he’s mostly working on getting past that. He does train me though 
That said, when we go shooting with friends, he’s always training somebody on something. Pretty much if you don’t run when you see him coming, he’ll teach you something.
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BTW, All my hubby’s favorite stock guns are .40s
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That’s too bad about his health. But at least he can still get out, and does a bit of training. Hey, I’m not knocking the .40 as long as it’s in a 10mm casing. 
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My coworker was LAPD reserve at the time and his brother and buddies worked Metro SWAT.
The rank and file were happy to be able to qualify to carry the .45ACP, yet I think they were more excited to be getting the now standard AR patrol rifles.
Funny how when the LEOs have them they’re called Patrol rifles vs assault rifles.
Did your husband train at the Angeles range? Like Rio Hondo academy lots of depts train there, it’s like a LEO Mecca for training for the LA county area. Just wondering
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@KenM he did sometimes, but did most of his shooting and training up at Piru.
yep on the .45s, and way YES on the ARs - in fact I suspect that’s the sort of thing the one department had in mind when they called my hubby to see if they could come borrow.
Turns out the whole thing was over before they got to his house but it clearly woke a lot of people up.
and YEAH on the “Patrol rifles vs assault rifles”. WTHeck is up with that? 
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I have to admit after reading what Thad had mentioned about the .40s, I ran off to check that my Sig P229 was initially manufactured as a .40. It was, so hopefully it won’t fall apart. It’s only 30 some odd years old and I’m hoping to get many more years out of it.
Our duty weapon was the 10mm Glock and it cost my department a butt ton of money to qualify us a couple of times each year, but they did it happily because they figured we were worth it. Some of our officers with smaller hands did have trouble adjusting to the size of the gun, but they got as much extra help as they wanted and worked through the issues. Our plain clothes folk could chose the Glock 30 in .45 because, lets face it, concealing the 10mm required you to wear something the size of a two person tent.
Back in the day, the .40 was a great choice for a personal off duty gun because it had nice stopping power and you didn’t have to spend $2 for each bullet like the 10mm. I still love it and carry it every day. That said, if I have a class where I know I’ll have to drop the cash for 500 rounds or more, I’ll use the P226 and save $50. Then slowly go over the techniques I learned on my own in .40 as I find the expendable cash. @luke_ouellette, what did you decide, did you get the S&W M&P Shield in .40?
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I daily carry a Glock 19 ( compact 9mm) and a Glock 26 (sub-compact 9mm). I also have an AR-15 pistol in the vehicle. I believe that it is important to have a rifle whenever possible. I own a Glock 20 (10mm), but I haven’t trained with it specifically, so I won’t carry it until I do. As hand loader, I like the 10 mm cartridge better than the .40. Ballistically, I believe the 10mm is a superior round. On the other hand I have LEO friends who rely on the .40 as a duty weapon.
This truly is a matter of personal preference. I want a handgun available when I need it. Also, if things are that bad, it’s only a tool to allow me to fight my way to my rifle.
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In training, the 9mm is a dream compared to the .40 SW or the .45 ACP because of the
ability to control the recoil. I carry the .40 SW in full and compact, with a blessings of
having a Glock 20 and it is a Standard size Glock. I am not bragging, just remember when
you wake up in the middle of the night with cramping arms and hands.
The 9 mm I can train with 500 round and relax for another week. If the recoil is causing
pain and you can not keep on target, I wish to save you time and money. Plus, you will be
a better person for it. This is not to correct you or anyone, just desire for you to reach
your goals, the Greatest.
Safety always.
William Smith
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@William_H all of my handgun training is with 9mm so far. I am with you regarding the beating that your hands and arms take from 10mm. Today, I ran 150 rounds through my G20. My goal is to get the round count up around 500-600 and vary the ammo, then take it to a training class and substitute it for my G19 and G26 for a portion of the class. There are two things necessary to make me feel comfortable with carrying a particular firearm. That is having a decent round count without issue and spending training time with the weapon. So far, the G20 has performed flawlessly. I would in no way want to run a 10mm through a class like Fighting Pistol as the only gun I have. I run 700 to 900 rounds over that two-day course.
I love the feel of the 10mm, just like I love the feel of a cartridge with a 147 gr. projectile in the G26. I cannot explain why I prefer it, it just feels confident to me.
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For all the information given to me, I thank you very much I also wish
you the greatest in your life. Peace and Safety, I do fully understand.
Thank You!
William H Smith Jr.
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.40 is 10mm
.45 is 11mm
9mm is well 9mm
Gone are the days .45 has more stopping power, today all are basically equal.
.45 has no more stopping power than a 9mm. If you’ve not read or heard of Sgt Gramins’ story of shooting a bank robber 14 times with a .45 and he didn’t go down here’s the link.
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