25 yrd zero on my pistol red dot. At 10 yards how much lower should impact be than aimpoint?

What is reasonable? 1 inch? 2? 5?

Beats me. I could answer about 5.55 but that’s it. I need to spend more time at the range and read ballistics on the various rnds.

What is the height over bore of the red dot on the pistol? Maybe an inch or inch and a half? That should be the maximum amount it should be low between the muzzle and your zero distance.

As a ballpark, 10yard should probably be half that distance so somewhere around 3/4"

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Need more info. What caliber, bullet weight, barrel length, and velocity. Some rounds at 25 yards, might hit higher than point of aim, from muzzle flip. My 45 hits higher point of aim with 185 grain bullets, vs 230 grain.


9mm 147 grain flat point out of a 4.5 inch barrel

There’s an app called Ballistica that lets you run some numbers. You can’t adjust barrel length but you can adjust sight height and set your zero distance. Assuming it’s a 1 to 1.5" height difference between the sight and bore and with Federal 147 grain (as an example) you’re probably no more than a half-inch high at ten yards.

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: “NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol!” There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollow points a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don’t care what you’ve heard: never use any 9mm hollow point heavier than 125 grains . 147 grain hollow points often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don’t gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP “Plated Hollow Point” (3619)


A quick plug of some numbers in the Hornady ballistics app, says you’d be 6.47 MOA low at 10 yards, with a 25 yard zero. Converted to inches, that’s about .677 inches. You’d be 1/2 to 3/4 inches low at 10 yards. Give or take.

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Checking my ammo now.

Just checked and found 147 grain HP. That might be why my Glock jammed on my first test run with it. I was using it as SD. Glad I found this. I also have issues with the -2 mags. Fortunately I have -1 mags. Looking to replace the newer mags now. I can barely load the 6th round and it won’t load at all unless I remove the last round. I am calling them my 5 rnd mags now.

Fortunately I happen to be testing different SD rnds and loaded them instead. 115gr


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This is waaaaaay too broad of a brush to paint with. It is contrary to my own limited experience, and also pretty much everything I’ve seen on pretty much every modern HP of any weight by people with way more experience than I have.

The only one I recognize on your list is the Federal Hydra-Shok which is a very old HP design and was superseded by Federal HST in the early 2000s. There is a staggering number of heavy HP by Federal, Speer, and Hornady shot through LEO/FBI contracts every year.

There are certainly some HP that don’t work well with some firearms which is why we always recommend you should run your intended carry ammo to test reliability and function. But I don’t think you can cast an entire blanket across all heavy HP from all manufacturers.

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Welcome benjamin and to answer your question…how on EARTH are we to guess when we don’t have all the details required to answer? Honestly, take it shooting and you’ll get a FAR better answer than any of us can guess at based on the little you provided.

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This may be incorrect but I always thought most 9mm handguns were set up for nato standards. 124 grain.

Based on the extensive research I did 5 or so years ago I think this info is out of date. Most of the info I looked at was from LE agency testing. I agree that all of the loads on your list should be avoided as they were all designed decades ago. Though I think I would use the Golden Saber in a pinch if none of the newer and better options were available.

My G19 and P365 have had zero issues with the several hundred 147gr HP I have put through them. Have you seen significant reliability issues with 147gr HP in your classes? Is there new agency testing or real world incidents showing that modern 147gr HPs like HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger are not working? I would be very interested in that info.

To the original topic. I would guess the difference in POI would be less than 1 inch regardless of load. Assuming that aiming at the smaller appearing target at the longer range is not changing the way you line things up.

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So Ranger T 147gr might suck but Golden Saber 147gr seems pretty good (despite its ancient design) according to this interesting video of a very limited test with many inconsistent variables. Think I will remain confident that my 147gr HST and Gold Dots will do the job. At least until I see enough repeatable scientific test results and reports of failures to stop in LE incidents that outweigh all the positive tests and incidents I have read in official studies in the past.

I love Paul Harrell. Especially his meat targets.

That video (which I recommend folks watch, as I do many of Paul’s videos) is not an indictment of ALL 147gr 9mm projectiles. In fact, it seems to just show how poor of a choice Winchester Ranger T-series is. It was outperformed by both Winchester white-box JHP (Paul calls it the “Pabst Blue Ribbon” of ammunition) as well as Remington Golden Saber. And unless I missed it, he doesn’t mention any feeding or malfunction issues and he was using a Beretta 92fs.