What would you do: Teenager fight in the parking lot

I meant to reply to you with that… my fault!

LOL, but remember, the SF mayor wants to defund the police which will result in longer police response times by reducing the number of police on the streets. SF also heavily punishes their police anytime they use force so now police are hesitant to respond to anything. Lastly, SF also doesn’t allow surveillance because the city has decided that having cameras up, which can help police locate criminals, invades our privacy too much. I happen to know a lot about SF police and can tell you stories as I have many friends on the force who are about to quit before the city and state further handcuff the police with more idiotic policies limiting what police can even do.

You probably shouldn’t bring up SF as it’s one of the biggest jokes aside from seattle or portland right now and since I’m friends with so many current and former members of the department…I can certainly tell you that the democratic policies have ruined that city.

Well, now that I’ve actually read your scenario I’d definitely intervene whether carrying or not. I’m serious about knowing how to fight. Grew up fighting to survive in San Antonio. Stepdad taught me how to box. The I moved and learned martial arts. I fight MMA style now as I’ve taken Karate, Tai Keon Do, KaJaKinFu as well as some weapons. I can turn almost anything into a weapon. I highly recommend you get your children trained. I strongly suggest including Judo. 5 boys will surely probably inflict a lot of bodily harm but if I can buy time for the girl to escape or police to arrive I’ve done my duty as a decent person.

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Maybe… but, I think you have to consider that right now police are being asked to wear way too many hats. It’s unfair to them, it’s not fair to the citizens because it underserves them, and numbers don’t always equate to lower crime rates… for example, Shawnee, OK has the second highest crime rate in Oklahoma, but has 2 x the number of officers per resident that OKC or Norman have. Also, I have worked for 2 police departments and I can tell you from the inside…there is a lot of waste… For example, OUPD purchased several segways back in the day…fully kitted out… Probably 10 grand each when it was all said and done. They sat in the breezeway unused for years.

I think we have to look at crime with a systems approach. The police alone don’t fix the root of the problem…They just bandage the wounds… Many people think that diversifying the way we spend our social dollar is the key…So, we all have the same goal…lower crime… we just are approaching it differently. I think somewhere in the middle is where we need to be. If we underfund the police, crime will go up…but, if we don’t fund mental health, after school programs, etc… crime will never go down… It’s a rough position to be in…making that choice.

Lastly, they may be a joke in your eyes…but they get there faster…that happens for a reason. Look at it like a business…

I’ve spent lots of time in SF.
It would take five minutes for an officer just to scrape the human excrement off his shoes.

I’m not saying it’s a good place…Im just saying if response time is the metric, they are leading the way…lol

There are alot of ways that response times get manipulated. I would not trust the Same Fran #.

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“Police are being asked to wear too many hats?” No, they’re asked to wear the exact number of hats they were today, yesterday, last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago and more. Their job is to protect and serve and if there is a disturbance, they come on scene and try and resolve it, separate, or make arrests and let it get worked out in court. They are doing nothing different than they always have. The only difference is that now, democrats are no longer supporting police and convincing the ignorant masses that their job is too much and they need help. They don’t, at least not counselors or therapists, they need more officers. I get it may be hard for you to understand but if you actually went on a ride along, you’d see that Police are EXACTLY what we need to deal with these issues because things could turn south in a heart beat and they’re trained to handle it.

Listen, it sounds lovely that you have such a light hearted approach and I’m sure that it might apply in random select cases. However, the problem is actually quite simple and it starts with the damage democrats have done over the last 12 years. When Obama was first elected, our nation thought he would bring about change. Sadly, he brought more divisiveness. He condemned ALL police for the actions of a few. He stopped showing support for law enforcement and as such, the public took notice. People began resenting and mistrusting police, People had no respect for the badge or the people there protecting and serving. The democratic establishment condemned any bad officers as a systemic issue nation wide rather than the acts of bad cops who should have been kicked off the force a long time ago. After Trump took office, Democrats furthered this divide by city and state democrats standing against law enforcement like in California where a mayor notified locals of an ICE raid and working to prevent law enforcement from work with federal law enforcement and even tied their hands. This behavior continues even today with now some cities further preventing police from arresting rioters because they are against trump but condemning anything Trump or related to Trump. They and even the media call them protestors while these rioters burn and destroy buildings and attack and murder people. All the while, police and told to stand down and not do their job. THEN, when the city burns, and people are starting to wonder how it got this bad, idiots are convinced Police need “help”. No…Police need to do what they’re trained to do, put an end to illegal activities. Make arrests, and bring peace and order back…period.

And Police aren’t a joke in my eyes, what’s a joke is the democrats who created this mess and in every Democratic city throughout the nation where poverty, homelessness, drug abuse, and crime are on the rise, people who can leave, do leave and they go to the next city and try and push the SAME damn idiocy that turned their lsat city into a cesspool. It’s a joke that people like you won’t open your eyes and see it for yourself. Look at Portland. It was Red up until more Californians chose to leave this state to buy a more affordable home and work remotely. As the population of former californians grew, so did their liberal ideology and more laws were passed embracing these liberal views. 10 years later, their city burned nightly for 40 days from riots and the homeless population is out of control. They’ve provided needles to drug users, allowed people to “camp out” in parks and suddenly their homeless population went from a thousand to nearly 14,000 or more.

So, your thought on what will make crime better is cute, naive, but cute. We do need a justice reform. No one should have 6 or 7 DUI convictions on their record. After one, the next offense should get them locked up permanently. Think of all the innocent people who would be alive had we done that? Rapists spend more time in court most of the time than in jail. We need to reform the justice system. With that, we need to also have more police on the roads and put an end to this stupidity we see everywhere. Riots? Nope. Lock them all up and charge them for any damages caused by ANYONE during the riot. Make people think twice before acting stupid. Next, politicians need to support law enforcement again. All these democrats who love to spew hate to police, need to be kicked out of office. Here’s the thing…everyone knows a complete douche that works at your place of business. Sometimes there might be a couple. the person who doesn’t work, or is a distraction, or is a complete rude bigot/ahole etc. The person who everyone wishes was fired to make your business better. Police suffer the same issues as any other “business”. They have douche cops who are the exception…not the rule. For every 1 douche, there are 1000 good to great police officers. So condemning all police for the actions of 1 or 2 is bordering on the same mentality as suggesting all men are rapists, or all black or hispanic people are criminals. It’s the worst and we need to call out and put a stop to politicians playing this game. It’ does nothing but causes divisiveness in our community between citizens and police and doesn’t help. Next we need Police to earn the respect of the communities back and people NEED to show some respect. Then you’ll see things change. As it is, most democrats think that by legalizing everything, they’ll lower crime because nothing is illegal…stupidity at its worst. There are good people and there are bad people and when a bad person decides to threaten or hurt a good person because they can, we need police to step in and make sure that person understands the error of their ways.

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I don’t have time for a full response right now, but will later…I will lead with this though… When you defund mental health … who gets to wear that hat? The people responding to the incidents that mentally ill folks create… so who gets to be the therapist then?
Cops wear more hats now than ever…Ill read this through and give you a thorough response tomorrow Erik.
TTYL

It’s as simple as calling the police. Set up your phone to where it can videotape the situation. And if the situation escalates to full fist punching kicking in yada yada, I’m sorry boys but it’s time to get involved. I’m not going to let a girl get beat up by a bunch of boys.

If that was my daughter and someone just stood around and watched her get beat up and hurt or raped or whatever the case may be, I’d have there butts in court. Before you say I can’t take someone to court over that. You would be wrong. I have read many cases involving bystanders that did not help.

I understand some reasonings for not wanting to get involved but honestly it sounds cowardice. Have we became this country that’s not willing to help because of bad Media? I don’t care the outcome. Someone needs help, there going to get it from me.

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Mental health is a WHOLE different topic brother. I am one of the few who would be willing to consider a law allowing family members to put a loved one under medical hold and evaluation if the person is a risk to themselves or others. However, it would have to have SEVERE penalties to those family members who misuse the law and incarcerate a loved one without cause. Had we had these measures in place, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Santa Barbara x2, and many more tragedies could have been avoided. We need to make sure to punish those who misuse the law though so as to prevent people like my friend’s ex-husband who filed a false police report and restraining order against my friend to hurt them for getting a divorce. Thankfully the police and courts saw through the BS and now he’s in jail where he belongs.

Here’s the issue. My next door neighbor was mentally ill and became abusive to his parents when he was off his meds. They had doctors come and try and get the guy to get back on his meds but since he was an adult, there was only so much they could do. Finally they had to kick him out since he wouldn’t stay on meds and was so abusive. He came back one night and proceeded to attack his parents and the wife called police. Police arrived and 3 officers subdued him and put him in handcuffs and took him to jail. Police are the ONLY ones equipped to handle situations like that. Police are trained to overpower and subdue. That’s why you see 5 officers on top of a single combative person…overpower, get cuffs on and subdue them. Name anyone better suited to handle mentally ill people who become violent? You expect a doctor, nurse, therapist, counselor, or priest to step in? not likely.

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Okay, I have time now.

  1. Mental health is not a different topic. Mental health issues are prevalent in our criminal population. Additionally, we are losing places to EOD people that are having break downs. If you don’t have a place to take people where they can manage their crisis safely and clinically, they will manage their crisis in the streets and the police will be their first interaction… and the police simply aren’t trained to deal with that… but they make do the best that they can… Wouldn’t it be more efficient to fund mental crisis management centers than it is to fund the imprisonment of a person that lost his/her shit? Check this video out and then tell me that cops aren’t filling in for a broken system that is leaving too much weight on their shoulders… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4xUfJKA7RA
  2. I have worked for Shawnee Police Department and Oklahoma University Police Department. I have an insiders perspective. Also, a ride along does not tell you much. You don’t get to be in the room when officers are decompressing after a tense situation… You don’t get to lift weights with them and know who they are behind all that…who the person is… They are overworked, overstressed, undertrained, and traumatized. Which is one of the reasons that their suicide rate is so high.
  3. I think you are a little misguided on this. Dems want wrap around services. Dems are of the opinion that the stress we place on officers is directly contributing to the incidents that we are having with officers making mistakes…or worse… just being cruel…They are breaking mentally because they are just men and women that got a job wearing the uniform… and accepted a responsibility that they didn’t fully understand….Our society currently expects them to be a fix it all…because we aren’t funding preventative measures… and that might be related to the fact that we over-fund our police departments… see my OUPD waste story from earlier…
  4. Police are not exactly what we need. Police are exactly what we have. That approach is not working. Norman (star of the Unite Norman national news movement) currently has more officers per resident than OKC but less by half than Shawnee… The crime rates don’t appear to be associated with police presence. Norman has the least crime. OKC has the second least… and Shawnee is #2 behind only Tulsa in terms of crime rate… despite having extra police presence. That approach isn’t working. You know what all of these places have a lot of though… Homeless folks…and homelessness is closely tied to mental health conditions. … and crime.
  5. There’s nothing “light hearted” about my approach. I am just looking at the crime situation on a macro level. You think one social service (police) is responsible for the reducing the crime rate. I think it’s a combination of things and the police only represent one part of a system…and the rest of the system isn’t being funded because the police are being over-funded. If I have a car, I don’t just care about putting gas in it to keep it going… are the tires full of air? Has the oil and air filter been changed? How about the spark plugs? There are so many factors that are related to crime.
  6. We disagree on Obama. Look at America now… 4 years after Trump… We did not have this hate at this level with Obama… We are literally starting to discuss the consequences of civil war… That wasn’t happening under Obama.
  7. Police work for all of us. Not just your side…and all of us don’t want our social dollar used the way you want it used. Some of us value our diversity and want more of it…and there’s nothing wrong with that.
  8. Again with the democratic city claims… Big-successful cities tend to be democratic, but there are a lot of small cities that are hard right wing and covered in meth and heroin… Also, success attracts crime… that’s just reality… If you live in the country or if you live in New York City, that remains true.
  9. Needles to drug users have decreased a burden on the medical and criminal system… a burden which you, the tax payer, covers.
  10. Lastly, you are obviously emotionally tied to this topic and trying to prove your point by being condescending…You have tunnel vision though… as long as you have blind loyalty to one social service, you will never be able to see the benefit of the others. It’s “cute” that you are so in love with your favorite social service though. That’s cute…
    I respect your respect for the police, but I think you should consider the possibility that they aren’t solely responsible for the safety of the community. There’s a whole system that works together to accomplish that… and I also hope you’ll consider the possibility that not all dems are for eradicating the police presence in our communities… we just want the whole pie funded… just like not all Republicans are for a cop choking a man to death for 8 minutes… Stereotyping is not the best path to any middleground.

I come from law enforcement and even though I am retired I still have some things I can’t let slide. Don’t mess with the elderly, the handicapped, people that can’t defend themselves, can’t watch people be bullied or abuse of an animal. In this situation calling 911 would be appropriate. Then be a good witness and try to record some of the events. Other posts mentioned maybe it could be a setup. That should be on your mind. Create some distance until police arrive. If the girl is facing life threatening circumstances like going unconscious or one of the assailants pulls a weapon I would then react accordingly.

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Get in my car, keep the doors locked, and call the police. Give accurate descriptions of all parties involved, and a description of the minivan. Since I walked up mid argument I have no idea who the agitator is, or how the conflict started.

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Additional response:
I was raised to be a gentleman and under no circumstance to ever hit a girl/woman. I was taught to be a protector. I’m stunned by those men that reveal they wouldn’t stop 5 boys from attacking a girl. Maybe I read too much into the scenario but it sounds like it’s getting violent. I would not allow those boys to freely attack that girl. I’d call the police but I would not stand by like a useless rock. The world needs more men to act like men, not wooses. If the girl proves she can take care of herself like an MMA fighter Id step back. Or offer help. I’d definitely stop it even if it was one boy being picked on it could just be boys harassing each other. But if it was violent I’d be careful not to get hurt knowing boys are likely to survive better. I taught my sons to defend their sister and mom if someone or animal ever threatened them.

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Not that I wasn’t raised to come to the aid to those in need. If I knew the girl, or was absolutely certain that she was innocent in this scenario then absolutely I would step in. The problem is, depending on the area, people have mouths on them. And sometimes the let their mouths run instigating problems. How do I know that this isn’t a situation where the woman approached her “baby daddy” to confront him with not paying his child support, and the other four are his buddies. This type of situation happens a lot, especially in my area. And if that is the case, then she isn’t totally innocent in the situation. Coming up to it in mid progress, you don’t know what the situation is. The only thing I might add is actually announcing to them that the cops are on the way in the Hope’s that they would run off. But then I would run the risk of them coming after me instead. Then the choice would become: do I stay and fight? Or do I drive off knowing that the police are coming and eventually get charged with leaving the scene? There are too many unknown variables here for me to personally make the decision to step in.

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