Facing a negligent discharge (recovery, not legal issues)

Self-Defense Gun Safety & Storage
21

Dawn beat me to it, but I too would tie motorcycling to firearms experiences. Some of you know that many of my weekends are spent at race tracks instructing at full speed. Errors happen. Mechanical failures happen. People get hurt. The hardest part for most people isn’t the healing, but the coming back to the sport after with that issue in the back of their heads. If one let’s it, it can get in the way of again working toward proficiency and safety. A close friend is working through that right now, after having his collarbone put back together…an injury he sustained which he could not have avoided (Seven bikes went down when the front bike blew and engine and oiled the track. There was nothing to be done by anyone). It can easily turn into a case of the “What Ifs.”

It sounds like your friend is well on the way and being extra cautious, which is good to hear. If uncomfortable about discussing it, he could always use the old “I have a friend who” or “what if this happened” with any person he wanted to address the subject with. Negligent discharges are rare, and injuries from them even more so. Always pointing in a safe direction seems to be a big one here and could have saved him a lot of trouble; something that we can all learn from.

2 Likes
22

@Tom56 that is a bad situation. There are a lot of “what ifs” and this is something that is hard to recover from. I heard from many fellow gun owners that trigger discipline is hard to master. Also, being in a hurry can be another issue. I hope Bob can recover. He needs support and to re-evaluate safety to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

I wish him well.

2 Likes
23

Thanks for tagging me @scotth. After reading through this thread I think there are a lot of good ideas. I can also say there are a few things in the firearms community that happen more often than anyone wants to talk about and they can be rather embarrassing. One of those is a negligent discharge. As others have pointed out, it is rarely accidental and more often caused by complacency and carelessness.
I remember when and where I had my first and only ND. No one else noticed it but i did and am thankful no one, including myself, were injured. My son had one not too long ago and he called me right after with his head hanging low. What I do know is that it is a learning experience and the first is usually the last. It truly is an eye opener and usually to hyper diligence.
As for legal ramifications, that depends on the jurisdiction. If there is a statute or ordinance prohibiting discharge of a weapon it could possible be enforced but I think it would be unlikely. As long as no person is injured, I would not expect legal ramifications. I would caution, especially in ERPO (red flag) states against speaking with folks who you know or suspect are anti-gun.
Someone suggested that he join a forum such as this one. I think that is an excellent idea. He would have a good number of people who have made similar errors and have a good ear for listening.
On a side note, just 2 weekends ago we had the ND heard round the world when a member of the NFAC group came to Louisville to protest the death of Breonna Taylor by police. As they were rallying, one of them negligently fired his weapon injuring 3 other members of the group. And these are supposed to be well trained and expert shooters. I guess it takes an expert to hospitalize 3 of your group with a single ND.

6 Likes
24

Same thing happened to me a few months ago, I had just completed cleaning my handgun, my hands had gun oil all over them, I reloaded the magazine and while chambering the round my grip slipped and before I knew it a JHP round went off and thru my office wall, thru a pillar in the entry hall and richochet off a second wall. I’m very impressed with the Hornady critical duty ammo! I’d did some damage!
I was pissed off at myself but no traumatized. I immediately opened a fresh bottle of wine for my own form of Therapy. No disrespect to your buddy but he needs to realize his mistake and get over it.

4 Likes
25

He needs to talk about it. It sucks, and I’m glad no one was injured. No one wants something like that to happen, but it does…a lot. I am a coordinator for an contract company in refineries. Every morning we have a safety meeting, and there are 4 things I drive all the time.

  1. Think. Think about what you are going to do before you do it. Make sure there is nothing that is going to impede you doing your job safely.
  2. Don’t get complacent. It’s easy to get complacent after you’ve done something 1,000 times. Treat every job like it’s your first time doing it.
  3. Talk about it. If you have concerns or questions about the job, speak up. Your teammates or crew leadership may have input that can change how the job is done, or be able to mitigate any concerns you have.
  4. Go home safe! Look at your hand. You have five fingers. Each finger signifies a person important to you. Now imagine, that if you aren’t safe, and you don’t put safety first, that each one of those five people will be notified that you won’t be coming home. Since you didn’t put safety first, they have to live without you. What would that do to them?

I’ve found that these 4 things apply to more things outside of work, than at work. If there is an incident on the job we all stop and go over what happened and ways to prevent it in the future… what did I do, that could have been changed or stopped to prevent what happened? What did I see someone else do that I could have addressed.
Relive the moment, and change the future.

3 Likes
26

I think a lot of us here have had this happen and realize that we have become more cautious after this happens and are very thankful that nobody is hurt.
I am 54 years old and have been around weapons since I was a child. I had my first ND not long ago and while it did not traumatize me, it made me very upset with myself for not paying better attention. I am probably a little over cautious now but that’s better than the alternative. You have to realize that you are human, you did something stupid, although not on purpose but if you let it get inside your head, you may as well sell your guns and move on. None of us are perfect and your friend can get past it.

6 Likes
27

You make a couple of good points. We all respond differently. And look at the damage. I saw the house and it was not just the hole referred to so often. This was a blast. It was a violent moment for sure and humbling, at least to me. We usually just see holes in paper or a metal target ping. Like a sport. This changed how I look at my loaded firearm. And (@Dawn) I wonder if new shooters should see something like this in their training. Wish we took some pictures.

2 Likes
28

I’ve shared all of this feedback with Bob. Your legal perspective really took the edge off. He harbored a belief that he’s hiding a crime. Maybe not legal, but not the handcuffs either.

3 Likes
29

The glass is half full. Nobody got injured, and things can get fixed. The fact that your friend is struggling with this says a lot about him, and you for posting. You guys are both conscientious gun owners reaching out to a community for support. Kudos and prayers for both of you. It can happen to the best of us. I really like @Dawn suggestion of posting basic gun safety rules in conspicuous areas, as a reminder. Doing so tonight!

4 Likes
30

I think I’ll use that in those teaching moments.

3 Likes
31

When it happened to my son, he kept asking himself and me, if he should call LE. No one was hurt, nothing was dammaged except his pride and a small hole in the plasterboard that a touch of spackle took care of. You don’t call the FD for a pan fire you put out with the lid. Lesson learned. Apply, and move on. We have too many other things we can feel guilty about.

4 Likes
32

I admit it, it happened to me despite more than 50 years of experience with firearms. I have several models and each has a different safety mechanism and some win fire with the magazine removed. I was preparing for the range which includes emptying the magazines, cleaning the chamber and placing a safety flag. I usually, remove the magazine, rack the pistol twice and squeeze the trigger always pointing to a safe area. I did it with my first 3 guns and when I cleared my third auto, which is about 28 years old I forgot it can be fired without the magazine. To say, that I was surprised is an understatement. First priority was to lock the guns, I was alone in the house and didn’t have to worry about injuries then I followed the path of the bunker. It went thru a printer which was damaged beyond repair, thru a wall, hit the aluminum blinds and broke the first panel of the window. When the wife came back home, I had to confess and explain, she hates guns and was surprised I had an accident because she knows how careful I was, until this event and she said, I guess anyone can have an accident, make sure it doesn’t happen again. I didn’t let it get me down, but I did relive the event to find out what caused me to be careless. I always rack the slide twice to makes sure the chamber is clear, but I question if after doing the first two guns, I became complacent. I now keep all the guns and magazines empty except for my conceal carry which I keep on the nightstand in my locked safe.
My advise is learn from it, memorize the safety steps and visually inspect the chamber to make sure it’s clear. Just in case, aim for a mattress when pulling the trigger.

3 Likes
33

Someone on here posted a stand on a bench which had a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand(?) that was aimed at to verify before disassembly and after assembly.

2 Likes
34

@Brad Here is that link to that thread: Safety First easy DIY project

2 Likes
35

Thank you for this thread! I brought it up in a private lesson last night with a woman who hadn’t been able to shoot a gun in years because of a bad experience. Her father had guns hanging on the wall. He encouraged her to take one off the wall and look at it. (She was a young adult at the time.) She didn’t know the firearm was loaded (it was hanging on the wall loaded) and shot a hole in the wall of the house. Luckily no one was hurt.

The first thing she wanted to go over was how to know if a gun was loaded and how to clear it. Being able to discuss this thread with her really helped her get over her initial apprehension and fear.

The safety fundamentals can make all of the difference, but you have to know them and abide by them. However, sharing bad experiences can definitely help others! So please let your friend know that by sharing his experience you and he helped a woman start training with a firearm for her protection, @Tom56.

If she ever has to physically defend herself with that gun, hearing Bob’s experience may have been one of the things that helped her get over her experience so she can defend herself.

4 Likes
36

I’ll admit to two negligent discharges, fortunately with only minor physical damage resulting. Both were failures with lever guns: one miscounting the number of rounds I’d ejected, and then pulling the trigger to drop the hammer on a supposedly empty chamber, and the other trying to lower the hammer on what I knew was a full chamber, but having the hammer slip away from my arthritic thumb. I can’t relate to a persistent guilt, as I first felt shock, then checked for any damage along the course of the discharged round, and then went about fixing it. Nothing as serious as the water pipe puncture by the initial poster, again fortunately. Sadly, it took me TWO instances to modify my behavior in two ways, as each one had a slightly different cause. First, when unloading a firearm, I now always check the chamber on ANY gun, lever action or not, even after emptying or pulling the magazine and running the bolt/lever, to make sure the chamber is empty. Second, unlike most of my other, staged firearms, I NEVER try to store t my lever guns with a round in the chamber!

2 Likes
37

Howdy, Tom,
I know how your friend Bob feels, after having my Christmas Eve ruined in 1989. I was an off duty cop, over at my cousin’s house for her annual party. Everyone else in the dining room and kitchen; my cousin’s husband and I in the living room. He asked about my backup piece, a Mustang .380, (which I carried at the time in a pocket holster in my right-rear pocket), and he asked just to look at it and see if it was the same kind as a guy at his job was selling. With kids running around, I didn’t want to take it out and scare them, so just turned slightly so he could see it and slid it out of the holster.

I had just changed PDs, and my previous department required us to carry our pieces in condition one (round in the chamber, hammer back and the safety on) and six years of training are hard to break. That night, when I went to slide it back into the holster, it went off. I didn’t realize that the safety had come off, so when it re-entered the holster, the corner of the holster caught the trigger and it went boom.

The bullet passed through my calf, bounced off my big toe and landed next to my aunt’s leg in her wheelchair.
Of course, since an injury occurred, in addition to the paramedics, the local PD had been called. When the officer arrived (to add insult to my injury…literally), it turned out to be a guy I went to the academy with. How he managed to keep a straight face, I’ll never know.

At the hospital, I found out that it hurt more to have them “rod out” the hole like cleaning a gun barrel than the actual bullet passing through it did.
So, was my most humiliating night ever finally over? Of course not!

Soon another officer showed up…from my new department. The chief had been called by the other department and he sent my co-worker over to take a report as well.
Additional insult added to the injury when my cousin made me pay to get the hole in the couch fixed. Duh-oh!!

I’ve re-lived that night several times over the years, and finally learned to laugh at my idiocy. Believe me, I am MUCH more cautious now than prior to the event. Tell Bob that this too shall pass, and be thankful the water pipe wasn’t some other type of fluid conduit that could have been hit! As to legal concerns, it all depends on your jurisdiction. Most would only charge someone if the shot was deliberate, but it has become one strange world, right?

Stay safe out there folks, as it is a dangerous world!

5 Likes
38

When I got hit in Vietnam I was shocked that it only felt like my leg had been slapped. I didn’t even know I’d been wounded until I felt blood. No pain. It was a different story when the doctors started doing what needed to be done. Sometimes I guess we need to pass through some pain to heal. Did your accident affect your job at all? Not on the same par, I was a locksmith on a late night call to unlock a car. My knee hit the lock button as I got out of my van and the door shut. I was locked out with my tools in the van. Had to call another locksmith to bail me out. Red face for sure.

5 Likes
39

Hi, Michael!

First off, thank you for your service, and I’m glad you survived your wound/s. What branch were you in? (I missed being drafted for VN three times before they ended the draft.)

Yes, that’s exactly what it felt like to me…like I got slapped in the leg. Hardly hurt at all till they reamed it out.
Thankfully, it didn’t affect my job. I worked at that department for another four years or so.

I think the Lord lets stuff like mine, and your van incident, happen to us to keep us humble.
I didn’t put in my post the ultimate humilation my ND caused…there was a large black spot of tatooing from the muzzle on my backside. I had to get my co-worker (yes, the same one that came to the hospital that night) to take his knife and scrape the skin till all the black was gone. Talk about a world of hurt!! EmojiI guess we should have numbed it first!

Take care and stay safe, sir!!

don

3 Likes
40

Applying that lesson to a use of force situation, I hear people say they would just shoot to wound an attacker, not to kill. If it’s bad enough to draw for your life, you should be ready to use deadly force. Otherwise your attacker may not even know he’s been wounded and continue the assault.

I was in the Army. Thanks for asking. Thanks for the response. Nice you had someone willing to scrap your nether regions. That’s when you see who your friends are! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

3 Likes