Crass or Class Behavior?

In my never to be humble opinion, This discussion went off the rails in the original post, statement or question. Which ever you choose to call it.

Crass or Class has no connection to God or Religion.

There is religious based dictum against taking the Lord’s Name in vain. Not profanity, crude, or vulgar language.

An appeal to adults to keep it civil is likely to generate resentment and independence when the cited authority is neither appropriate or universally recognized.

Please lets keep it civil.


To James730

You said it much better than I did. Thank you.


Denis11 I have to agree with you. Even though I found it comical at first I had to remind myself how angry I got when I saw that same slur against President Trump. And I had to ask myself “have we really come to this in our great nation?!?”
We have to use this kind of language to express our complete and utter disdain for a president? I can understand the thought behind this phrase and, quite frankly, I understand the anger and frustration over this buffoon in the White House. But we need to come to grips with the fact that there is a far more evil thing taking place behind the scenes in this administration! Fellow members if you are a praying person…. PRAY! And then STAND! For those who don’t hold to a religious belief but know that we are blessed to be Americans, you know also the values that were passed down from our founders. We are armed because of our magnificent Second Amendment! We are armed because our forefathers, I believe, had what I think was the Devine given wisdom to know that one day this government could look like the one we have now. Stand strong fellow members! And stay free!!

Moral certitude has nothing to do with a belief in God. It comes from within each of us. We know the right thing to do, even when we "do it not.’


Not real sure where a non believer’s moral compass is rooted, but obviously it never points due north.


You have a point there. Give this a listen.

I have met plenty of ardent believers whose moral compasses are hopelessly broken. And I know more than a few atheists who are the best people you could ever hope to meet.

You don’t need religion to realize in your head and heart that murder is wrong on so many levels.


I’ll respectfully criticize your point here then. You say: “Instead of simply criticizing, could we contribute from this storehouse of experiences to constructively solve problems? Let’s begin to act rather than react.”

Yet, you’ve only offered complaints about a particular set of reactions and offered no actionable alternative. How then are you demonstrating the courage of your conviction here?

As a thought experiment, let’s say that you have looked closely at the policies, language, and philisophical underpinnings of the platform driven by big government. Having done so, you’ve determined that a great deal of it is slickly produced and rebranded Marxism or some other collectivist philosophy whose central feature is to centralize power to the benefit of a few. You also determine that one of the clearly stated goals of this philosophy is to eradicate the church, and turn as many people away from God as possible, starting with your children and grandchildren through critical theories, collectivist notions that place the state above God, and praxis introduced through the SEL framework in public schools. After all, to consolidate state power, or the collusion of private and state power to the benefit of a select few, you can’t have competing moral authorities. The judgement of the state must come between your relationships to God, family, and commerce with fellow man. In short, as a Christian sinner seeking to act on God’s will, it is absolutely imperative that you speak up as a witness, to turn people to their savior rather than the idols of the state designed to enslave them. To stand silent would be a dereliction of your faith.

For the sake of argument, let’s say all of that is true. Now, what do you do, Denis11? What do you say? To whom do you say it? Will you emulate Paul, who converts his jailer to Christ? Or will you decide that your soul is safe and that’s good enough? Is it enough that you had the will to speak up about policing the civility of the debate, or do you have to actually advocate the substance of the matter? Where do you go from here?

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There are many people in this organization with varying views. How about we respect that sir?


Thank you for your post Matthew

Come on DonjMac. Biden doesn’t even know what day it is. You can hope all you want.


And going, and going, and going. :roll_eyes:


Hi Roger14

I must disagree with you. Many societies have existed where murder was common practice. Some indigenous people of North and South America practiced ritualistic murder because they had no basis for believing it was wrong. Their religion was not rooted in Mosaic Law and the Christian values established when Jesus set forth his standards of behavior. Since that time, many of the laws governing societies have taken those Judeo-Christian values and codified them. Other examples of murder much closer historically: Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and Mao who all practiced genocide among the people they governed. I don’t think any of these individuals were practicing Jews or Christians. As much as you wish to deny the existence of God, our values today are a result of having been well schooled in those ancient values, not realizing from whence they came. Moral certitude has everything to do with God and without that belief, we too will descend into a morass of moral uncertainty. I am going out on a limb here and speculate that most of the civil unrest in society today is a direct result of a godless culture. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to think a little harder on this subject.



Carolyn8, I agree with your comment about Comrade Biden,I don’t have any hope for or in anything Biden does or say, he doesn’t remember what he said.


To Matthew271

Some of my actionable alternatives:

  1. Be less judgmental, more kind and try harder to love everyone.

  2. Combat collectivism through voting in elections that have integrity.

  3. I will volunteer at the next election to assure the results are free of outcome uncertainties.

  4. Support candidates whose governmental philosophy aligns with mine.

Becoming rabid, calling people names, using foul language, rioting in the Capitol and being confrontational makes us look like uneducated jerks who cannot have a civil conversation like you and I are having here. This behavior is destructive to the cause of liberty and freedom.

It is frustrating that as an individual I have very little influence and power to change outcomes. BUT I AM ONE who can do my part in my backyard and hope that others of like mind will do theirs. When this happens, things will change.

I would love to hear about Matt’s plans to change things. Perhaps you have some ideas I can use.


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You are well read, articulate and I enjoyed your recent post. Thank you. I share your beliefs in God and impressed by your wisdom. I can only pray that more people search God out. He is our only salvation. Denise thank you again. You are an inspiration

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A quick statement regarding how people act, think and feel in America…

this nation was founded on Christian principals…

SO… even if your not a Christian a large part of your upbringing was influenced by Christianity…

and I see some saying in their post they think feel and do those same basic Christian principals…

those principals have been carried forward for over 200 years…

those principals have been with you since birth…

and have been all through our everyday society/culture…

if you were born and lived in a different country you would probably act, think, and feel differently…

if you disagree your welcome to go to the middle east and see how that is…

or many places in Asia or Africa…

you WILL see/witness a culture that acts, feels, thinks, and does VERY differently!


If the founding fathers took your course of action, we’d still be kneeling before the queen.

My advice - get hard, stay hard, fight hard. Never give an inch.


In times like this, & at times it’s hard. Dealing with so much, and all the hate.


Maybe we can all go back to discussing less personally contentious topics like Sig vs. Glock, or 45 ACP vs. 9mm?