Reconciling the faith with Conceal Carry

Self-Defense Concealed Carry
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Welcome back Forensic_Wow. Been a while. I’m envious of you that you found a faith, that sounds beautiful man.

Just food for thought, in your faith or religion, do they have a chapter on if and when it’s okay to utilize self defense if you or your loved one is being or about to be harmed?

If yes, and if your defense is measured to equal or fair to win said life on the line battle, then perhaps there is room for both to live together harmoniously, faith and defense.

I had heard that some churches do, such as those who have security detail within their parish community. In fact, from what I remember about you, you could teach them a lot and be a leader.

I hear your point about conceal carry, as I had heard some stories of us at risk to “being influenced”. I call upon us to prove that wrong, that we know not all are a threat; By setting an example of poise (measured, calculated). The greater community needs you too.

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The Bible has a spot for self defense and I’ve heard we get our castle doctrine from it.

"“He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you a place to which he may flee. If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21‬:‭12‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

"“If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭22‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

These were rules given to the Ancient Nation of Israel, a chosen people to live Holy and separate from other Nations lead by God to judge other nations to show Himself as the one true God, whom brings about the promise of a savior who will bless the Nations Jesus Christ.

So when it comes to the Old Testament law of Israel that was specifically for Israel and a lot of the laws were added protections- Jesus in the New Testament brings up the Old Testament law and demonstrates to us it’s not the law that we have to follow, but the spirit behind the law.

For example- Eye for Eye, tooth for tooth. We can read that and automatically think to ourselves well if someone does something to me I can do it back to them, when the spirit of the law behind that is do unto others that you would do unto yourself.

So how do I take these verses from Exodus and apply it?

I don’t have the knowledge or deep enough theology to properly apply them. Everything in the scriptures is to point towards God purpose and reveals something about God, so we can’t blindly take the scriptures and see something and apply it to us because it seems right in our eyes.

I do know my Church has a safety team, and I’ve been eager to try to get on that team, I’ve studied conceal carry for over 5 years after being robbed 3 times at a gas station, been unsuccessful in being able to join, they tell me to get in contact with the person who is head of it- which also is the guy who gave me my conceal handgun certificate to give the Sheriffs office back in December 2018. He won’t respond or reach out. One of the people in the team said their only goal is to get people out of the building it’s not a security team like people think it is.

After coming to faith a lot of the areas in my life I found myself short sighted in, God corrected me in and I’ve found a greater purpose and pursuit in my work environment, learning how to encourage people and lift people up, how to handle and deal with dating and personal relationships, how to let go and forgive those who wronged me and support the people who need my help without expecting any reward. To soon I’m leading a class on discipleship trying to get scripture to work in people’s hearts to be better followers of Christ.

I want a family, I want to be able to protect my family, I do believe protection is an essential of providing as scripture says: “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

On the other hand, we have Jesus words: "“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭38‬-‭39‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16‬:‭24‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I’m very analytical, and I’m not trying to preach, I just ask if this is my purpose of following God, what was the purpose of learning conceal carry for 5 years and how do I reconcile it. I believe that I may be able to reconcile it once my pastor gets done with his lesson, and I agree we are meant to be on alert, not paranoid, as we are to watch and protect our own. I’m not against conceal carry by any means, I would have no problem using my conceal carry with the training I’ve had to defend myself or a loved one. It’s just trying to integrate it with my faith.

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Well it is certainly refreshing reading how serious you are taking your decision. I am sure you will make the best decisions for yourself and others. Good luck on your journey.
Philippians 4
New International Version
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

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Maybe @Johnnyq60 can add to this discussion

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The Bible says if you don’t take care of your Loved Ones your worse than an ..indfadail that word worse than SHIITT. We are to tend to our sheep. Love Bobby Jean and Debbie Ann Twofeathers . :white_heart::latin_cross::united_states:

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Forensic-wow. Tell it Brother The Grate Spirit has Called us to DEFEND OUR LOVE ONES AND THE INNOCENT Love ya Brother sir here’s ya a Root Beer :beer_mug: Sir . Love Bobby Jean and Debbie Ann Twofeathers . :latin_cross::heart_hands:t4::united_states:Amen. One nation under THE GRATE SPIRIT. Not the Devil aka ENEMY . :fire: Amen

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Yes, we are all our loved ones. G-d forbid one of us goes astray and has to be kill to be stopped. This is the
decision we have to make if we are willing to take a life or not.

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The one thing that is helping me reconcile is these are all things my Pastor was considering when it came to conceal carry, so if my answer is yes to all these questions then I guess it’s not too far off from a Christian mindset, also all these questions conceal carry trains you for and prepares you for so my answer is yes to all of these.

Some questions to consider:

• Where is your trust in God?

• Do you still believe Rom 8:28-29, that God can bring good out of bad?

• Do you place yourself in situations or places where violence in more likely? Bars, illegal drug deals, gangs, or emotional rallies?

• Do you or are you in a place where you are involved in emotional relationships, dating and a break up or marriage and adultery where having a weapon would make one more prone to vengeance and retaliation?

• Do you pick poor relationships? Relationships with people prone to violence or outbursts of anger? Proverbs tell us to stay away from these people.

• Do you work in an environment where violence is there? Places with cash and an easy get away, convenience stores, liquor stores, gas stations, especially those in poor or neighborhoods with drug issues, pharmacies (targeted for drugs not necessarily cash) and jewelry stores to name a few. Perhaps you should get a different job or work at a different time, not open/close or between 10pm and 4 am when crime is more likely.

• Are you prepared to substantially harm or take the life of an individual made in the image of God?

• Are you prepared for the lawsuits that will come after you injury or kill someone from individuals associated with the victim?

• Are you prepared to defend yourself, and pay for an attorney to defend yourself against potential criminal charges?

• Do you have a good counselor to help you though the PTSD that will surely occur? Although regardless if a person defends themselves or not you will have some degree of PTSD.

• If you fail to maintain possession of your gun(s) in such a way that someone else (a minor), uses it to commit a crime, are you prepared to be prosecuted for that as a crime?

• Are you mentally stable and not prone to anger or depression (use it on yourself)? Do you control your emotions and not have outbursts? Are you clear thinking in stressful, extremely stressful situations? If you are not then is gun ownership right for you?

• Are you practiced and will remain capable of using a weapon at all times you, have it?

• Will you follow all applicable laws?

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You forgot do you want to be a responsibly armed America :united_states:?

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I am of the position that I don’t care what the Bible says, I can have my arguments with G-d if He exists when I stand before Him. If I am wrong then send me to Hell and let me burn forever, I would rather be there than with a G-d who thought it would be better for me to die then send my attacker to be judged by Him before me.

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Amen brother @BobbyJean and God bless you brother.

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Well said. Hearing you, reminds me of an older cousin of mine who is a motivational speaker, and of my prior trainers/instructors of the state CCW permit, CCL classes. Good for you.

I can see how our morals and some laws derive from scripture. And how poetic it reads. Sounds like you have good knowledge on de-escalation as well.

Reminds me of similarities life has with caring for a herd of sheep; There are the sheep, the Shepherd, The Sheep Dog, and the Wolves. How sometimes we have to wear the hat of the Shepherd, but sometimes as the Sheep Dog.

Very best to you Forensic_Wow.

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On thing I’ve learned is to never tell God what to do.
The tail doesn’t wag the dog.

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We’re not sent to hell because of 1 sin. We’re already heading there because our sin separates us from God, God is Holy and righteous and no one can compare or come close to His standard of righteousness, if you happen to kill someone you’re not sent to hell simply for that, you’re sent for completely rejecting God.

God loves us so much that He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross, so He can pay the penalty for our sins, so He can be just, and our justifier. Romans 3:25-26.

By hearing this comes faith, and recognition of the reconciliation God wants with us, by getting to know Him personally through His word, and loving Him.

We follow Him because we love Him, we turn from our sin because we love Him, we care for people because we love people, not seeking our own benefit.

If you put your faith in Christ and kill someone, will you automatically be sent to hell just because you committed one sin?

Hebrews 10 says no, where there is forgiveness there is no more offering for sin, your sins are forgiven; Past, Present and Future; therefore we shall take up a new life by faith drawing near to God in thankfulness for what He has done.

The danger for us as believers, is knowing what He did and still turning from Him, completely disregarding Him in our life, claiming Him, but not following Him, there is only expectation of judgement then.

The question I have to ask myself, is since I’ve turned my life over to the Lord and I love Him and try to follow Him despite myself falling short, is the mindset and idea of conceal carry puts myself first and ignores God’s will for me? Or is there a way I can still conceal carry while also putting God first, making my decisions based on what God wants for me according to His word and having the ability to protect myself? Or am I in a season right now like what God did with the Israelites, Jesus, and the disciples where they sent them out into the wilderness with nothing completely relying on Him, and after doing so everything being added back to them? Or is conceal carry not supposed to be apart of my life anymore, and just like how the disciples returned to fishing abandoning their purpose Christ called them to do, and do I need to accept that and move on?

Only guidance through Prayer, study with His word, and asking other believers will give me the answer.

I hope this gives you a better understanding brother and confidence.

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I do want to take the time here and appreciate everyone for their side of how they view things it brings a lot of stuff to the table, and offers different perspectives from varying degrees. So glad the conversation thread here has been honoring and peaceful. I’m hoping I can properly reconcile conceal carry to my faith, and help others to do so.

I hope I haven’t frustrated anyone too much in here because that is not my intention and I’m thankful for everyone being helpful.

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Maybe I can have an interview with Tim Schmidt founder of the USCCA, talk about his faith and coming to Christ. I hope the USCCA doesn’t hate me for this, I don’t wish anything ill of the USCCA, I continue to support them.

Back in 2023 at USCCA Expo I wanted to do a video on both the 2022 and 2023 Expo on YouTube as I used to do tik tok until tik tok got rid of me, I came to faith in May 5, 2024. The following video was taken before I was in the faith. I made this by link only.

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I am curious did somebody tell you that killing was a sin? I know murder is a sin. I always thought killing was justifiable homicide and not a sin. I always thought of killing as saving somebody’s life because one has to kill a murderer to save somebody’s life.

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I have a friend that likes to argue that killing is a sin because he reads the KJV but when we look at context, almost immediately in Exodus it’s broken down by God in Exodus 21:12-14. It’s clearly, showing through anger if you kill someone it’s clearly a sin. I’ve had people argue with me the part where God let him fall into your hand is close to manslaughter not self-defense and I disagree with that take as well, just by the language that is used when they go to war. When we go to the sermon on the mount, Jesus shows the sin isn’t the killing, it’s the hate, the killing is just a result of the hate.

I do not believe if I defend myself and kill someone that it is sin, though I understand, killing someone isn’t something any believer, or non-believer should want to do, and if a believer does have to defend oneself, I would encourage them to draw close to God, and forgive the violators.

Though the one thing that confuses me is that in Ancient Israel if you did kill someone accidentally or in self defense presumably- they give you the option to flee to another city, but if you remain in the city you killed, the Priest can still avenge the persons death, which is quite confusing.

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I think as long as one reports the killing one can be found guilty or not guilty depending on the circumstances. It is kind of like having a trial to find out if one killed in good faith or not.

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I’m going to state something that shows why or how I got to this point.

I was robbed twice in October 26, and October 29 2017. Both robbers got away, I don’t know who they are.

When I got robbed November 12, 2018, I wanted to make an example of the 3rd robber. I plead for 5 years for both the robber and the driver in the 3rd robbery. The robber was given the 5 years sentence, the driver- despite his long rapsheet the judge said 5 years for him was too harsh and only gave him 2 years for the robbery, he ended up doing a total of 6 years because he sold drugs to someone and they overdosed and that lead for the 4 years.

I feel sorry for my robber, yes he got the 5 years but he went in when his son was 14, missed his own kids high school, graduation, first job. When my robber got out he went back in for a probation violation, when his son was 20, he rode his motorbike and was involved in an accident and unfortunately passed away. He lost all those years with his son, and now he won’t get to talk or see his kid ever again.

Also the year is 2026 currently, the robber happened in 2018, they both were convicted and sentenced in 2019 making 2025 when they were both released.

So this makes it a heart problem with me as well, am I carrying because I’m afraid they’ll come after me and retaliate for the years of their life lost? Is that what God wants me to focus on?

Am I truly forgiving them and hope they turn to repentance and am I trusting God through this?

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