Thanks Bill110. Educational. Wish you well. Hope see you on these various pages still.
4 Likes
For whatever it’s worth, I actually worked for the USCCA for about 2 years before returning to my current industry. USCCA is the BEST company I’ve ever worked for but I was made an offer I could not refuse to go back to a job I’d left before.
During those two years I researched the “competition” extensively. Discussed it at length with several of the best Criminal Defense attorneys in my state that were doing work on behalf of USCCA Members and had done actual work with the USCCA and others before. Then I took THEIR recommendations to heart. After I left the USCCA and my coverage is no longer a company benefit, guess which one I swiftly handed my credit card to….
The USCCA is probably the most hated company amongst anti-gunners all over the USA. If there was a case where they left one of their members hanging without coverage without a REALLY legitimate reason (they actually murdered someone) it would make national news and be on the front page of every liberal newspaper in the country. Instead they try to burry ny info on the company so no one learns about them.
There’s plenty of points to consider when you choose coverage. To me, unlimited legal coverage (not just attorney but also expert witnesses, private investigators working for YOU, etc), getting to use the attorney of MY choice (CRUCIAL) and fire him for another if the guy is not doing a good job, and the paying of civil liability awards out of the insurance benefit are the keys and several other services do not meet these criteria. Some not by a long shot. Several of the other services, if you don’t like the attorney THEY assign you, they’ll be happy to let you go to another, but their benefits end.
I have worked many years to build myself a nice life and I want to make sure I keep it AND keep everything that I’ve worked hard for. And if you have to defend yourself and you stop a bad guy(s) but lose EVERYTHING to your defense and the legal system and make you family destitute in the process, did you win?
Any similar coverage is better than nothing and I applaud anyone that can see that. But NONE give you the level of education the USCCA gives you as a benefit. I was an Elite Member when I worked for them and after I left I’m still a Platinum, so is my wife…. out of my own pocket.
All the contracts for all the companies are online. Download them, read them with a fine tooth comb and sit down with a LAWYER (I did) to help you make a choice. And then sleep much better after making the right choice for you. This is not about getting a new range bag.
On a final note. When I came into my territory I took EVERY Law Shield Partner account away from them. The local Law Shield representative was PISSED. he went to just about ZERO business in a month or two. So he went back and started to talk trash about the USCCA, all of it untrue, to the folks that were leaving him. I got tired of debunking his bullshit so I individually invited EVERY new partner out to lunch and asked them to bring their Law Shield rep out with them (and told them I was paying for lunch for all of us) so HE could ask any question he had about the USCCA to me and I would answer openly, even bring my contract with me… BUT, I said when he’s finished then I had the right to ask the same of him and HE would answer openly and provide his documentation to back it up. He did not take me up on ANY of the invites and not ONE partner has gone back to him.
You see, Law Shield hires independent contractors to sell their memberships and LS is NOT liable for what these guys say, by design. USCCA has a dedicated sales force, ALL of them (me included when I worked for them) hold P&C Insurance licenses in the states they work and they actively seek to get them licensed in all 50 states. They make you record your presentations to groups and those recordings get reviewed by legal/compliance to make sure you say the truth. THAT by itself is a massive difference…
And by the way I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Tim personally and attending a bunch of his meetings. Tim is a BELIEVER! This is not just a business for him, every corporate goal has to do with lives saved and members successfully defended. Period…
22 Likes
If any of you are still struggling to decide whether to use USCCA or a competitor, maybe it’s worth asking an attorney? I don’t mean ask an attorney here, I mean find a trustworthy attorney who you would want to represent you if you had to use a firearm in self defense. Ask if their office has a preference. (It’s not exactly the same, but similar to how you might have to switch insurance companies to keep a doctor that you want.)
For example, there’s an attorney local to me who specializes in firearm law. He teaches classes both for other attorneys and for regular folks like me who just want to know the left and right limits of the law. He’s also a big fan of USCCA, and I like knowing that he’d represent me if I had to call USCCA for help.
Also worth noting: I also have a broad pre-paid legal account, and their language is pretty similar. They are not bound by contract to defend me forever if I am convicted of a crime.
4 Likes
This is lengthy so I apologize in advance but it’s a complex topic. In a head to head comparison with CCW Safe…
The two salient links for comparison purposes are:
CCW Safe: Terms & Conditions - CCW Safe
USCCA: https://www.usccamemberterms.com
First, thank you because you forced me to once again look at my selection and I was due for a review. I went to the CCW Safe site and read in detail their T&Cs and this is what I found:
CCW Safe: Covered Member must have (1) a valid state concealed carry weapon permit issued in the Covered Member’s name, or (2) for active and retired law enforcement officers, be qualified and covered under 18 U.S.C.§ 926B or §926(C) (LEOSA-HR218); or (3) the ability to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, where allowed by applicable state law (Permitless or Constitutional Carry States). Additionally, to be eligible for any services offered by CCW Safe, a Covered Member must not be a prohibited person to possess a firearm by state or federal law. It is the exclusive responsibility of the Covered Member to review and understand applicable laws and regulations on where and how a Covered Member can legally possess, carry, and/or use a firearm.
USCCA: Individuals must be 18 years of age to join the USCCA.
Note-this is important because USCCA will cover ANY incident of SD with ANY weapon you are allowed to posses at a Federal level, so if an 18 year old has to defend themselves with a knife or a chair, they are covered. Also the USCCA is household coverage so if your 15 year old kid has to defend themselves in your home while you’re out they are covered.
@@@@@@@
CCW Safe: CCW Safe provides no services or coverage in WA or NJ. NY Law Enforcement Plans have a separate terms of service located at www.nyle.ccwsafe.com.
USCCA: Coverage is 50 states and all US Territories in every plan. USCCA can not sell memberships in a few states BUT but they cover incidents by members while in ALL states while traveling, vacationing, etc.
@@@@@@@
CCW Safe: "CCW Safe does not put up the collateral for the entire bail bond, as this is the responsibility of the Covered Member to coordinate through the bondsman. CCW Safe will facilitate acquisition of the bail bond and pay the premium, but not more than 10% of the listed bail bond. An example would be if the Covered Member received a $100,000 bail bond, CCW Safe would pay up to $10,000 for the bail bond premium. The rest of that bail bond is secured by collateral of the Covered Member, if needed.
USCCA: Up to $100,000 for the cost of bail bonds required for an “insured”.
@@@@@@@
AND the ABSOLUTE killer for me:
CCW Safe: CCW Safe possesses the exclusive and ultimate authority to select counsel, retain counsel, manage litigation (subject to the applicable rules of professional conduct), select expert witnesses and other litigation support services, and retain expert witnesses and other litigation support services. Although a Covered Member may recommend or suggest counsel, a Covered Member expressly and unconditionally acknowledges the aforementioned exclusive and ultimate authority of CCW Safe.
USCCA: Get your own lawyer or we’ll find you a great one from our own list of over 1,200 lawyers we vet for competency. They do not manage your defense, YOUR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY and YOU manage your defense.
NOTE: There is no provision to ASSURE that the lawyer that assign to you is a Criminal Defense Attorney or even competent on criminal law. They could contract with a tax attorney based on cost and you’d have no say on this matter.
@@@@@@@
Oh and by the way:
CCW SAFE: Criminal Acts:CCW Safe will not provide the services if the use of force incident is an intentional criminal act (i.e. robbery) or where there is no admissible evidence of self-defense. CCW Safe will not provide the services for a firearms response, if in a place where it is a misdemeanor or felony to possess a firearm (although all other legal weapons shall be covered). Please see exception to “Gun Free Zone” incident in FAQs.
The USCCA does not even look at “gun Free zones” or even state laws, that is a separate charge and has no bearing on your right to defend yourself. They will also not question your guilt or Innocence, they won’t even look at your case before providing benefits, they are not part of the legal system that is judging you or your defense, the insurance benefit will provide the means for YOU AND YOUR ATTORNEY to mount a defense until someone either deems you innocent or declares you a murder.
Just the above points above make it a VERY clear choice for me but I read both agreements in detail and I could be here all day typing the differences that make the USCCA a better choice than everyone else out there. But again, anything is better than nothing so good for you for at least having something… but I’m not switching…
Thanks
13 Likes
BINGO, give that man a cigar…
7 Likes
Last year, I too decided to end my membership with USCCA. As my wife is joining me in retirement, we found that it was just too expensive for us. HOWEVER, Tim immediately reached out and assisted me by reviewing less expensive membership options that met our needs without breaking the piggy bank or increasing legal exposures.
I recommend giving USCCA your first shot (pardon the pun) at resolving whatever concerns you might have.
13 Likes
Thank you so much for the kind words, Steven!
It was a pleasure helping you last year and we will always do our best to help in any way possible!
Stay safe!
8 Likes
Oh and really one last point. The USCCA has walls of awards for customer service. If you encountered a Customer Service person that did not meet your expectations please call back directly to HQ and ask for the head of the department, I can guarantee you that unlike other organizations they will put you right through.
They have a great training program for their representatives but anyone can have a bad day or call, and corrective action is immediate when they encounter an issue. This would be way more effective than just complaining on an open forum where nothing is accomplished by either party.
6 Likes
I believe USCCA is the best option… mainly for the training, but I’ve had a much different experience than you with customer service and have not ever been referred to a department head, just another who couldn’t\wouldn’t help.
1 Like
The few times I’ve dealt with the Customer Service folks they’ve been polite and I actually got more than I asked for.
I had a Customer Service person Ask me if I was a vet, when I showed my 214 she said “your eligible for a veterans discount”. Honoring vets and saved me a buck, what’s to complain about.
9 Likes
I’m absolutely shocked knowing the value they’ve put internally on great CS and it being the backbone of the business. Also getting many emails from folks that I personally signed up (hundreds) thanking me after their great experiences dealing with the folks on the phones.
But I also know that many people have different perceptions and levels of tolerance and what could be interpreted by someone as a small shove in the right direction others would feel an unbearable hard push.
We’re all different and sometimes it’s impossible to just do what a member asks for various reasons. Again my advice is to call again and be more forceful asking for management. They don’t hide from members and it’ll help them become a better organization.
3 Likes
I will stand by my comments-- I was “there”, you were not.
1 Like
Of course you should stand by your statement, it was your experience, not mine. Did not mean to offend, just to add perspective and maybe some internal insight. Have a great day.
2 Likes
I want to be clear that I am not trashing USCCA. All policies are filled with conditions, limitations, and exclusions. As life circumstances change, it’s always a good idea to go back and re-read the agreements we have signed. I also went back and re-read my homeowner’s and umbrella policies to verify what is, and is not covered. USCCA has a very good policy, and in addition, has put together an excellent training program that is becoming recognized by more states that require training for CCW. The NRA has taken notice of this. This forum is also huge benefit (On FB, I’m sure my OP would have been flagged and deleted). For my own personal circumstances, I felt that I needed to make a change at this time. If this conversation has made anyone re-examine USCCA and the competition and decide that USCCA is the best choice for you, then I hope that you can sleep better at night knowing that you have done your due diligence. And as I said initially, I am going to miss the magazine. Y’all be careful out there.
3 Likes
I’ve dropped my membership twice. I have 2 separate SD policies from my activism with 2A groups. I pay $0 for them. But I pay for 3 Elite memberships. The reason I’ve come back, is from improvements in the USCCA policy. I want to reiterate that I am paying for 3 Elite policies, when I have 2 free policies, that I still prefer the USCCA’s policy even though I have to pay for them.
I have said dozens of times, that the USCCA is the absolute Gold Standard for customer service. I’m that guy, if I have a question I’m going to call. Not one single time have I ever had a negative interaction, so if you had poor customer service. I would stake my reputation on it that they would listen and fix it. I’ve even brought my personal attorney into the USCCA attorney network. So I have faith that my decision on SD coverage is the right one for me.
All of that aside, I don’t know of any insurance policies that cover felonies. I want to know that my policy is ready and willing to fund my defense. Attorney, bail, expert witness testimony, and anything my attorney deems relevant, as well as any civil litigation. I’m not naive enough to think that my exoneration of a justifiable Self Defense incident means I am done with the Court system. So the additional coverage for Civil Liability is a selling point for me.
8 Likes
Group,
Ideas
If one can afford it, purchase SD insurance, and for non SD legal insurance, if you can afford it - explore alternative policies or retainers. Some larger employers have discounted programs, but read the fine print as there are limits/exclusions. Best medicine is prevention, live to prevent risk.
Whoever you chose:
If you have not yet done so, nor identified who you want as your attorney, take a look at USCCA’s list. Select one, email him/her, or call them, get to know them, vet them yourselves. I did, he was very friendly. Share USCCA’s contact information with your loved one, as well as share your preferred attorney’s information. If your smart phone stores the last seven or numbers dialed, call so as to always keep those two numbers on the top, for ease of finding.
List of attorneys (link), from your USCCA member/account dashboard:
3 Likes
Up here in the Keweenaw of Mi. our closest legal rep is 2 hrs away in Marquette Mi.
don’t know if the lawyers in Wi. can come up here to represent me
[also 2+ hrs away]
2 Likes
Many lawyers are licensed in nearby states as well as their own state of residence so they can handle cases in a broader geographic area. You may have to search for representation on that basis.
Also, keep in mind that most experienced criminal defense lawyers are not actually learned on true self defense cases. Advice from your post-incident support organization (USCCA or other) on lawyer selection can assist in this aspect.
To get ahead of the game on understanding self defense cases versus common criminal defense strategies, read Law of Self Defense by Andrew Branca and Deadly Force by Massad Ayoob.
2 Likes
I need see the fine print on USCCA’s policy. Maybe they can even join in here. I wonder if our policy here covers other attorneys for client/members in a SD incident, even if the attorney was not a member? In case geographical closer-ness (per se) is needed for you.
2 Likes
that would be good, we have a local attorney that is pro 2A
guess ill have to give him a call and see if he would come on board with USCCA
1 Like