What are the community's (including the official USCCA) thoughts on the AR15 pistol?

No, I just read about. It has a 5” barrel, no different than other hand guns. Having a receiver extension, aka, buffer tube on a blow-back handgun seems pointless to me. My impression of it is an expensive, tacticool handgun. I am not looking to put a barrel shroud, flash suppressor, etc., on my handgun. Might interesting to shoot, but I can’t CC it, so if I was going to spend that kind of money, I would get a 1911.

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Never replaced barrel but maintenance is pretty easy ( when in doubt check you tube)

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Nice pieces of hardware.

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With 10 round magazine restrictions here in CA, it’s a non starter.
In your neck of the woods it’s probably a different story.

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I’m liking your buddy already!

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SBR’s and AR pistols…as well as some PCC’s…are great options for a “truck gun.” The legalities are complex due to all the differences by state and the whims of Congress and the BATFE. The AR pistol is a hot ticket these days because it seems to have the regulatory advantage among the rifle caliber options and it eats very common ammunition if you get it in 5.56/.223. Longer barrels have a big positive impact on the ballistic characteristics of 9mm NATO and Parabellum/Luger. Check it out. So the PCC’s in 9mm are also very attractive for these purposes. Loading a SBR AR with Hornady Critical Defense .223 in about 3 30 rd mags with a good WML is a shockingly safe and effective option for advanced home defense. But an AR pistol or PCC would always be a specialized “extra gun” choice for me…something I could leave in the truck in a Pelican case.

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An AR Pistol certainly has its place in a lot of scenarios. I think its way beyond just a niche weapon. Talking specifically around 5.56 caliber AR Pistols…

The CONS:

Some of the supposed drawbacks are a bit overstated. Yes, a shorter barrel means reduced velocity and hence reduced effective distance. But that is easily solved by choosing the right ammunition for your task. Old school Ball/FMJ ammo is extremely dependent on lots of velocity to fragment/yaw to be terminally effective. So don’t use that in your AR Pistol. There are many modern reasonably priced ammo choices that will fragment or expand down as low as 1600fps which can get you terminally effective performance out to 200+ yards.

Muzzle flash (aka fireballs) on extremely short barrels are definitely a thing. Just know your barrel lengths to avoid the problem (or maybe you like fireballs :wink: ). < 10" is guaranteed fireballs. 10" is frequent fireballs 11" is infrequent fireballs and 12"+ is not likely to fireball. If you need a really short barrel, choose 300Blackout which burns all its powder at 9" and 7-8" barrels are very common. If you need to go even shorter, PCCs are the way.

Yes, recoil is a bit sharper with shorter barrels (shorter gas-tube length, less dwell time), but this is still 5.56, not your .45-70.

The PROS:

Size:
The shorter barrel length results in not just less overall length, but less mass/weight as well. And specifically, less mass/weight at the far-end of the rifle, pulling the center of gravity back towards the shooter. This makes it easier to maneuver in and around obstacles like hallways, doors, furniture (in an HD role), or even vehicles (in a “get home” role).

For some people the reduced weight, usually 1lb+ in my experience is quite significant. With a little bit of planning, a lightweight pistol build can be several lbs lighter than a comparable 16"+ barreled rifle.

If you suppress your rifle, you are back to close to a “typical” 16" barrel rifle length/weight, but now you’ve got suppression.

Effective Distance:
With the right ammo, you can be effective to 200+ yards. That is potentially HD in rural areas (both 2 AND 4 legged predators) or that is hunting for small/mid-size game in most of the country. That doesn’t mean you have to shoot at 200yrds… its not like it stops working at 199yrds… That means the entire spectrum from 0-200+.

So at 0-25yards, which is typical pistol range, a rifle caliber will be vastly more effective than that pistol. Don’t forget that SWAT uses ARs all the time in what is generally considered pistol range, and they swapped from PCCs like the MP5

Clint Smith wrote a book about the topic of using rifles at pistol ranges called “Urban Rifle”, it is very recommended.

Increased Accuracy
In any scenario where you want to shoot something with a pistol, you will usually be more accurate with a long gun. The longer sight radius (irons), easier “pointability”, increased stability with up to 4 points of contact means you can make better shots even in typical household distances of < 20yrds AND its easier to control for follow up shots. Think about the longest possible shot in your home, usually down a hallway, and think about placing an accurate shot with a pistol vs a long gun.

Accuracy isn’t just useful if the “invader has my child as a hostage and I need to shoot the knife out of his hand”. What is behind the intruder in your home? A child’s bedroom? a thin wall to your nextdoor neighbor? An accurate shot with the proper ammo means all that muzzle energy gets dumped into the badguy and not through 4 or 5 walls to exit your home if you miss.

The greater terminal effectiveness also means you will likely only need to shoot once or twice, instead of 4, 5, 6 shots with a pistol to get them to immediately stop. We see this all the time in police body cam footage.

Legal Transport
Pistols are legally less hassle to transport than rifles. You can often keep a mag loaded and maybe a round chambered where in some places you must leave a rifle empty and unloaded. In some states, this may depend on having a CCW, but at least it’s an option. This factors towards the “get home” role, or in more rural areas where you might need a rifle loaded for predator control.

Roles

Home Defense. Check. Easy for everyone to use, increased effectiveness, increased accuracy over a pistol. Choose the right ammo and you have less penetration through walls than almost any pistol round.
Perimeter Defense (aka HD in rural areas). Check. Same as above out to a few hundred yards.
Get Home Kit. Check. Easy to keep in a non-obvious bag and carry around until you (hopefully never) need it.

The Competition

Vs PCC
PCCs are also great options, and a great alternative offering many of the same benefits. Why should you choose a PCC over an AR Pistol?

If you really need the shortest barrel possible… 5 or 6" barrel is huge in a handgun, unusable in an AR Pistol, but great in a PCC. If you are looking at a longer barreled PCC like 16", I personally would say you may as well go rifle caliber in the same size package unless one of the reasons below holds sway…

PCCs can also offer less recoil if you are sensitive to the recoil out of an AR Pistol, while still giving you 4 points of contact. PCCs can offer magazine/ammo compatibility with your pistols. That means buying less different types of ammo to keep on hand, shared magazines to give flexibility in which one you choose for a given scenario.

PCC ammo is notably cheaper than rifle ammo.

Vs Handgun
Do you need a support hand to open doors? Your HD plan may involve going to get your kids and haul them back to the master bedroom. Having one hand free is super beneficial there.

The same way an AR Pistol is significantly more maneuverable than an AR rifle in HD, the handgun is significantly more maneuverable than an AR Pistol in the same confines.

Good luck trying to conceal an AR Pistol :rofl:

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This is my vote for the best reply to this thread! Very well thought out and factual information presented.
That said… When you’re talking SD & HD one has to first consider your potential scenarios, which can directly reflect on your build.
Are you looking to defend against a potential burglar/home invasion, zombie apocalypse, post disaster marauders, red dawn attack, night crawling over hormonal teenage boys with designs on your daughters? Each (with regard to the caliber you choose) will dictate the style of bolt & carrier, grips, hand guard, muzzle break, rails and attachment points for scopes, sights lasers and light attachments. And as mentioned before, the ability to add a suppressor on the fly.
So no need to decide on everything now. The libs say we still have 8 years before the world ends from climate change anyway.
My final suggestion is remember to keep all your receipts to make returning trial & error incomparable parts easier.
:wink:

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Yeah, he’s got great taste in toys and the manufacturers tripping all over each other to make it happen. :laughing:

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Yeah he’s one of my mentors. He spent a few decades on the Operations side of the house and he’s got some very interesting skills.

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As a retired ICE Officer, my life has been threatened by mouthy idiots that just wanted to sound BA, but I’ve also been threatened by subjects that had the knowledge and ability to follow through. The US Attorney’s Office did nothing. My kids resented that I would not let them play in the front yard without supervision but my family was the easy way to get to me. If I need to defend my family I want the confidence that I can penetrate a heavy truck as easily as a bad guy with body armour.

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Sorry Todd30, I’ve never even heard of the AR45 Banshee. Does the “45” mean it’s a 45 cal? I already ordered the AR15 pistol kit (in 5.56), but I will look into the Banshee. I love the AR platform because in most cases you can change the upper and now you can shot 7.62x39 or NATO 7.62x51. Heck I’ve read that there are shotgun conversions available now for the AR .Thank you for the info.

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Here’s our 2 seater convertible so I can relate to the limited space.

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Very nice! This is mine

I also carry 2 spare magazines for each and the AR has a 1000 lumen light. Plus a red dot.

I don’t expect everyone to prepare like I do. I don’t happen to think this is excessive. I am partially disabled. I don’t modulate heat well and enough stress will kill me. So when I am planning that’s my start point. I start at worst case scenario and that way I am fairly certain I am gtg.

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You might have a bit of a time getting a 7.62x51 (308 Win) into an AR-15 platform but the AR-10 handles it nicely. I use a under the hand guard Kinkov muzzle can on my 7.5" and while it does put out fireballs in dim light I think it actually recoils LESS then my 16" carbines. I zero’d my pistol at 37 yards and given the ballistics I am still point and shoot out to 200 yards.

Cheers,

Craig6

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I don’t like Z cars especially convertibles. I absolutely LOVE them, yours looks real nice.

We have an ‘14 Maxima SV that it almost as fun that my wife drives as her main car. I had an ‘03 Infiniti, that my son now has. It was a G35 coupe that I used to drive daily so I modified and tuned it just a tad so it would handle better, and get up and go a bit more.

These days, I drive the ‘07 Suburban. It’s tuned and modified as well.

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I personally would build a AR 45 with a 12 inch barrel like the Thompson Machine gun. Put a flash suppressor on it. The Banshee has a 5 inch barrel so it is just like a 1911 but has a stock on it.

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As an owner of a AR15 pistol I will say I love mine. I like the 5.56mm round, I love ease of cleaning, love the ammo capacity. I have the EO Tech exps 2 for a sight, Noveske pig to control muzzle blast and added a Velocity 1 piece trigger. My employment requires me to drive all over the mid- west so I bought a 4 inch piece of PVC & some U- bolts to use as a holster bolted to wall in van for my AR while traveling. I find it to be very controllable for quick follow up shots. With regard to useful range- it will hit plates at 200 yards which suits me fine. So long as I don’t put the buffer tube to my shoulder, the ATF says it is a pistol meaning anywhere I can take my 1911, I can take my AR. image|375x500

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Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I have an EO Tech on an M4. I just checked out the price of the Noveske pig. Ouch. At USA Midwqay, it was $125, but I bet that in the long term, it’s a good investment. BTW, the EO Tech isn’t exactly cheap either, as if you didn’t know. Mr. Cheapskate here will probably upgrade slowly. Probably go with a Red Dot knock off first. Have you tried using a laser?

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Welcome to the family brother and you are in the right place at the right time. BTW nice pieces of hardware.