Weaver vs Isosceles

I was trained in modified Weaver in the military 30 years ago and can’t break it — too ingrained. As I think about it, though, it still makes sense — less of a target and can shoot better while running, especially long guns. I think one reason Isosceles is becoming so popular is that so many people are trained for shooting with body armor. In that case, it may make sense, but I’m not likely to have my plates in in a normal carry situation (or at any time in the last 30 years…)

Can someone who prefers Isosceles explain how you shoot a long gun while running forward? I was taught you drag your back foot for a half stride while shooting, then continue running. I can’t picture how to do that in Isosceles?

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I’ve never shot a long gun while running. @KevinM, any suggestions?

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Well, my training has never really included sprinting forward and shooting at the same time. With a long gun we are doing what is lovingly called the “Groucho Walk” (for people old enough to remember the Marx Brothers). Basically, you shoulder your long gun and, keeping your elbows down (so you don’t bang them on door frames), roll your shoulders forward and start walking briskly. Put your heel down first and roll to your toe… then just keep walking. Doing this you can keep a pretty good pace and be accurate as you move and shoot at the same time. It is not sprinting, but it is better than standing still.

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Thanks, @Dawn and @KevinM! This was training (and later action) for taking an enemy position. I don’t suppose I’ll need that particular skill any time soon, and I suspect old training would kick in in any event. It was 30 years ago and I still fall back to what I learned then; hopefully it will be another 30 years before I need to charge an enemy position!

Thanks for taking the time to respond and, as ever, for the great conversation.

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Shepherd, I think you are spot on. Minus the martial arts training, the other training and experience you reference is likely the same I had. It worked for me throughout my career. The modified Weaver is now as natural as breathing. Fortunately, I have never been involved in a combat shooting in the United States.

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You’re correct Dawn, most ranges will not allow Shoot, Move, Communicate Drills. I understand why they do not as the training and experience of each shooter is different and a range cannot reasonably be expected to cover that kind of liability.

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Welcome to the community @Calvin7!

I started shooting in a modified Weaver and have shifted to isosceles mostly for recoil management. Either one works as long as it allows you to get a good stable base and a steady consistent shot.

When doing some personal research I found this training video which I found to be very helpful. It’s shows the way recoil is handled between each stance, particularly when firing multiple shots.

Many years ago I started teaching myself isosceles And later Israeli stance and they worked fine for target shooting and in a straight up gunfight in front of you. However as I started shooting in more and more competitions when real world scenarios of multiple shooters popped up, I was at a distinct disadvantage as I would have to shuffle my feet and turn to engage shooters to my right or left and slightly behind or needed to use alternate light source (flashlight). Don’t get me wrong I think the isosceles and the Israeli stance are very good (I prefer Israeli) but when engaging multiple subjects or using a long gun or flashlight, modified weaver is what My personal preference is. It is what i use and what I teach but if a student wants to learn another stance I will teach it. Everyone is different and it all boils down to how your trained, what your use to and your comfort level. The important thing is get training.

Used Weaver for years. For the reasons Dawn describes, I use Isoceles for pistols, but long guns I still go with Weaver.
The thing I’ve been working is moving and shooting, both laterally and at angles. Well, I was working on it. With ammo prices where they’re at, I am down to a lot more dry firing. Not that I" low; I just don’t want to use up my stash!

I’m cross eye dominant as well and find Weaver to be my natural stance. However, while receiving training, I have been instructed to use Isosceles.

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@Steve36 - can you say more about what an Israeli stance is? I only know Weaver and Isosceles by name.

Israeli stance is basically the Isosceles but bending at the knees instead of standing straight up. Still feet about shoulder width apart keeping your weight slightly forward. This give you more stability and flexibility in using this stance. I hope this helps. Here are some images:
Israeli:


Isosceles:image

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Very cool — thanks for taking the time to respond!

I bird hunt with 12 and 10 ga. Shotguns. I started out shooting shotguns, and I’m cross eye dominant so the modified Weaver is what works for me. I have tried to get isosceles going, but subconsciously revert back to mod.

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Both are fine but for me its Weaver. Im not wearing body armor , it is more of a ready fighting stance and for me better balance too. Better starting position for running away too lol.

Well I guess SOMEBODY had to claim it and I am good with the name as those boys and girls taught me a couple things even when I was tuned up and Tier 1.

I started off in a modified Weaver stance as I am Goofy Eyed and Goofy Footed (80’s Skateboard term there) and transitioned over to the Israeli stance when I had to wear body armor and began to learn point shooting. It has stayed with me ever since but that is primarily due to hundreds of thousands of rounds of practice (thank you tax payers) . Left foot slightly forward as I am right handed.

With a “squatted” stance you can move forward, back and laterally in either direction and your knees take up the up and down allowing you a stable platform to shoot AND move at the same time.

Cheers,

Craig6

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