Violent death in America stalks ordinary walks of daily life

AND Government agencies, just sayin.

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With the advent of ease to buy body armor ,I have changed the center mass training I used to do to 3 areas,the head,neck and groin,the head and neck is a good take down,the groin is a major bleed out,but first of all the ones that carry need to train and become efficient at shot placement!,and if in case a mass shooting is where you are at to know where you are placing the round,you do not want to add to the casualty list by firing a lot of t
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN out there,those are the really stupid rounds that there are,so know where your round is going!

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Some medical organizations believe informing NICS violates HIPA. Go figure.

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Not just hunting cats - apparently stabbing and beheading one and brutalizing the dead body. Posted pictures of himself with blood spattered on his face. Very sick, damaged individual.

As a mental health practitioner, I can say there are ways we can help people like this so they don’t become mass murderers. I can also say that such ill people should never own firearms, ever!

The FAA (I’m also a pilot) would never allow such a person to pilot an aircraft. Maybe the FAA has some comparable standards that could be useful in gauging the safety and suitability of owning a firearm. What do you think?

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You can’t replace a system that would work if people/organizations (mental health practices, etc.) were doing their part by updating information to the FBI/NICS, with another system unless you change the people/organizations first. There are no “system” solutions for people problems!

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Being taken by LE to a local hospital for mental health evaluation in response to a community complaint

  • “Immediate danger to self or others?”
  • “Prob’ly not…”
  • “Okay, thanks.”

is not the same thing as a felony conviction or due process adjudication for unfitness and loss of rights.

I see no rational argument to lock this guy out while simultaneously objecting to ERPOs, or the use of ERPO and misdemeanor assault convictions as NICS blocks.

Everybody is in the same rulebook. Either rights of the innocent will protect the guilty pending conviction — or preventing the guilty infringes upon rights of the innocent. It’s hard to thread a path between the two, and I don’t believe much effort is being directed to solve that — just two sides yammering at and about each other. Meanwhile, injustice prevails in all sorts of ways.

Um, the Constitution doesn’t say anything about infringing upon a natural right to fly…?

Some decades back we decided as a society to stop the inhumane incarceration of “crazy people” on the basis of “somebody said so” — a just outcome. But then we did next to nothing in addressing the move of severe mental health problems from the institution to the community — a non-just outcome. So, here we are — back to trying to lock “crazy people” out of society on the basis of “somebody said so”.

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Do you think medicine for bad guys routinely wearing body armor will be bigger market of 4.6x30 weapons?

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That is exactly why my main go to carry is a 45 and the Rounds in my carry weapons are DRT,or commonly called Dead right there rounds they are hollow point frangible rounds that act like regular rounds until it hits liquid and then explodes like the rounds we made overseas with formulated mercury,the name of the company is called DYNAMIC RESEARCH TECHNOLOGIES.com if you are interested about them

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I’m not sure locking them out of society should be the goal - rather, locking out their ability to own or possess firearms. “Them”, meaning people with certain mental health issues that would likely cause them to be a risk to themselves or others.

We talk about this issue at our clinic, the fact that it’s not illegal to be crazy in this country. So maybe it’s not an issue of locking people up - because people with mental health struggles have just as much a right to pursue happiness as everyone else - rather, it’s an issue of suitability.

The FAA would never find someone who is totally blind suitable for piloting an aircraft. The state DMV would not allow the same person to drive a car. Because they cannot do so safely.

This is a tough call, but what are the criteria that would allow someone to carry a firearm safely? And of course the 2A says nothing explicit about suitable mental health - it only obliquely suggests it with the phrase “well-regulated”. What does that imply?

A huge can of worms!!!

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We in the mental health field can violate HIPAA only when there is an immediate, identifiable threat to the life or safety of the patient or someone else. As of right now, that doesn’t include things like dismembering dead cats or having violent thoughts. They still have to be specific and immediate.

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Touchy subject, for sure, especially with 2A supporters. But folks unfamiliar with mental health should remember that under certain circumstances, they can take away your shoelaces, your children, or even restrain you so that you don’t harm yourself or others. When a person is at that stage, it’s really no longer a 2A issue to keep him away from firearms.

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Good point. Constitutional rights do not come without limits.

I doubt anyone here would say that a six year old should have 2A rights to keep and bear arms. We’ve applied a threshold for that right to be exercised. Why not the six year old? Because we’ve deemed him/her to not have the maturity to responsibly have a weapon.

Same thing with people with mental disease or defect. If they are a danger to themselves or others, they would probably not receive the rights from 2A.

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Send them to Canada, they believe in euthanasia.

I know of at least one state, where certain licensed health and or mental health workers are required by law to report certain individuals to the state, and HIPAA allows it.

Kinda like my dear colleagues in this community point out, in order for it to work, agencies need to cooperate with one another, and enforce. I’m not familiar with PA and NY laws.

Another thing which to me stood out in this NY case, was the heavy use of “Social Media” by the aggressor; Reportedly he followed anger laden websites and tried to record his violence on video. Unique to this era, all the hi-tech.

Great points by the group! :blush:

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I didn’t mean “locking” literally, but in the sense of depriving one involuntarily of civil rights — not just in the momentary crisis of figuring out what’s going on, but long-term or indefinitely. In the current discussion — not holding your gun pending personal or threat identification, but posting you to the NICS blacklist because an evaluation was performed or a complaint was made.

Losing rights as a consequence of transgression or incapacity is — and should be — possible. But it shouldn’t be easy or subjective — it should require significant due process and objective standards.

Right. But HIPAA constrains only healthcare providers and entities — who have no direct role in populating NICS records, AFAIK. Law enforcement officers and agencies are not bound by HIPAA, but I doubt they are authorized to make blocking entries on the basis of an informal and subjective emergency evaluation.

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My state, Wisconsin, is one of them. I’m required to report anyone who may be an imminent (a specific plan and the means) danger to themselves or others. As well as ANY threat or abuse of children or the elderly. (So if I’m over 60 and I abuse myself, do I have to report that? Dilemma!)

The guy in Buffalo killed and dismembered a cat (not a threat to himself or others, just really dark) and wrote some tirades (still not an imminent threat).

It seems so hard to put pieces together and say “Oh, someone should have reported that!” In hindsight, sure, that’s easy.

What we really need is the pre-cogs from The Minority Report!

Back to the FAA standard - if a pilot takes Abilify, they may not pilot an aircraft. Abilify is used to treat things like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The only psych meds one may take and still pilot an aircraft is a handful of well-known, documented SSRIs that have little or no effect on cognitive functioning, except to reduce depressive symptoms.

If gun-possession were determined by which meds you take, would that be a valid measure?

But then even with the FAA, pilots have to self-report any meds. There have been a number of fatal crashes in which blood analysis of the pilot reveal medications that are not FAA certified and were unreported by the pilot. We’d have the same issue with gun possession.

Again, a very tough scenario in a free and private society.

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Is self-reporting a problem with commercial pilots? I would imagine that, since their livelihood depends on flying, they would be very reluctant to see psychiatric care.

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How is a cognition-altering psychiatric drug different from schedule 1 narcotics?

Sigh. Between the cat, the hazmat suit at school, threats… I suppose you could figure him a psycho. Just as Parkland shooter was once voted by his peers as most likely to commit a massacre. The signals were clear there a well, 39 police contacts. People in position of authority are closing their eyes to these signals, unfortunately.

As was previously noted, the HIPAA threshold is “imminent” and “specific”. He/she will definitely kill “someone, someday” will not get their name on the “no buy” list.

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What we can report as mental health counselors are things like “I’m going to get my gun and go shoot _____________ tomorrow morning.” (Fill in the blank.)

Torture/killing animals, even cats, is a predictor to harming humans. We certainly can report general concerns like this to the police. They then must decide what to do with that information.

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