I have couple questions its in regarding veterans like me that God forbid I never find myself in this situation. First these questions is in no way to shame any honorable servicemen or veterans who served proudly for our country. However, with any organization such as the military, police etc there is always gonna be a few bad apples with veterans or current service members with bitter malicious intent. So my first question is what happens if God forbid I have to defend myself from someone who is a veteran or current service member ? My next two follow up questions are does the USCCA have resources to adapt to the UCMJ in a defense case ? If not will USCCA consider implementing something that will adapt to any defense case if it clashes with the UCMJ of military service members or veterans ?
@Dawn may be able to answer this.
Thank you for your service and welcome to the Community, @Benjamin!
Your USCCA membership is there to assist you with your legal defense when you’ve had to physically defend yourself or another innocent party. It is not designed for acts of war. However, if you were to defend yourself from an attacker who was a veteran that doesn’t change how the USCCA membership would be able to assist you.
I want to make sure I’m understanding your follow up questions - are you referring to defense in a military court?
Yes my follow up questions is referring if God forbid I defend myself from an attacker who is a current service member I hope who ever will defend me will not only know self-defense law, my state’s laws but also knows UCMJ regulations and how to counter them if my attacker is currently in service.
@Benjamin great question! Thanks for your service! And thanks for posting this. I’m interested in watching this conversation continue.
The UCMJ does not apply to civilians. If you had to defend yourself against someone who was subject to the UCMJ it would be handled by the civilian authorities with jurisdiction where the offense took place. If it took place on a military installation it would be investigated by the military (OSI, NCIS or CID) but if it was determined that charges against you were warranted then it would be forwarded to a federal prosecutor. You wouldn’t be tried in a military court.
Mike
P.S. I am not an attorney (military or otherwise). The above information is my opinion based on training received during my military service.
In most cases even if it happens on base it will be handled by civilian authorities.
Now if you mean you’re not in the service, but get into an off base shooting with someone who is active duty, UCMJ will not apply to you. UCMJ applies only to those who are on active duty and reservists/guard only when they have been called to active duty.
Now, if you are currently in the service off base generally it will be handled by civilian authorities. On base it probably will be as well but there could always be charges filed under the UCMJ in some circumstances.
Best advice would be to consult with a JAG atty to be sure as the rules may have changed quite a bit since my last enlistment.
If you are not currently a member of the military the UCMJ would have no impact on you. If you were involved in a self defense situation with a member of the military it would be handled in civilian courts. The military person could face additional action pursuant to the UCMJ but you would not. Bottom line…civilian non military individuals are not subject to the UCMJ.
Thanks everyone for their input. I asked this questions because as a veteran myself not serving anymore living my civilian life these questions were in my mind about self defense because my focused or confusion was knowing how the UCMJ would come into play if I’m forced to defend myself against another veteran or current service member with malicious intent. Since I’m a military veteran my confusion was since my (what if defense) case would be military on veteran defense case and was curious if I would be subject to the UCMJ as a veteran.
No worries if you are out of the service, just worry about learning by heart the laws of your state and at least have a passing familiarity with the firearms and self defense laws of any state you may be visiting or passing through.
If you ever have a question, consult an atty and being a USCCA member you can always do that and be assured the Atty you’re consulting with actually knows the law in the state because you’ll be directed to one of our atty’s in that state.
I’m going to up the amplitude on that last part and say learn by heart the laws of your state AND of any state you may be visiting or passing through.
Apps like USCCA’s reciprocity and state law map are excellent to have on hand and can easily be reviewed before you cross into another state.
Yep, among the best resources available anywhere to help us keep out of trouble.
The laws can vary enough that it’s very easy to end up in violation even if you are trying to be a good, decent, law abiding citizen.
You guys are awesome! Thanks for helping @Benjamin out with this question! I wasn’t sure what he was asking and you guys killed it!
Thanks so much!
You guys all helped me alot and well appreciated and I thank all those here who served as honorable as I did.
I served in the US Army 1968-1987, There is no relationship with the Uniform Code of Military Justice after a service member has their DD214, their is no extenuating circumstance to bring it back in play. If however the accused is a service member first the (UCMJ) Uniform Code of Military Justice then if a crime is committed both the Military and Civil have prosecutorial rights. But I’m guessing Civil side would pause until the Military side has been fully satisfied.
@Benjamin I’ve been thinking about your question and how the UCMJ might be implicated. If you, a veteran, had to defend yourself against a veteran or an active duty service member, it is unlikely the UCMJ would be implicated. In order to prosecute you under the UCMJ they would have to reinstate you in the service. It is possible to do that but highly unlikely. Most crimes are prosecuted by the civil authority unless there is an overwhelming reason the move it to a military court. And the UCMJ can only be enforced in military courts, the court of appeals for the armed forces and SCOTUS; District Courts and Circuit Courts of Appeals do not have jurisdiction over UCMJ cases.
The only reason I would anticipate a veteran being prosecuted under the UCMJ is an incident such as the Fort Hood shooting.
As a caveat, I have not practiced in any military courts but have, several years ago, spent significant time studying the UCMJ.
If you are a retired military member receiving a pension check or living on post, you could potentially be subject to UCMJ. Those are very rare circumstances. You’d have to do something pretty bad and outside civilian law to face UCMJ as a veteran. If you got in a scuffle with an active military member, expect civilians to handle it. FWIW, I recall that, statistically, defendants are better off under UCMJ, so it’s not something to lose sleep over.
@MikeBKY - Mike you are the best, I see you work very hard to keep your self
up to date on the latest info of what is going on.
Stay safe, keep your head on a swivel, and carry.