USCCA and Washington State

Wait, didn’t I just read in the news that “they” (being the ■■■■■■■■ in San Fran) are now pushing to REQUIRE gun owners to have liability insurance? We all know it’s just another bald-faced example of a “poll tax”, designed to limit ownership. And another example of how hard these "progressive’’ idiots suck. Can’t exit the left coast fast enough!

To me it sounds like USCCA has decided to roll over on this one in favor of the “greater good”. Sad.

We’re doing our best to help as many members as possible as we find a way to be able to assist Washington and New York again, @Tyler14. We haven’t given up.

We are all responsibly armed Americans and want to be there for each other. As soon as we have a way to be able to help NY and WA again, we will let everyone know.

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Dawn I’d strongly urge our leadership team to look at keeping these members “in the family” for out of state coverage and for all of the training benefits at a reduced rate.

That would certainly be a better option than having them leave with a sour taste in their mouths.

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@WildRose, the issue is the Office of the Insurance Commissioner has taken the position that certain USCCA member benefits are illegal and against public policy.

Until the investigation is over, we have chosen to stop doing business in Washington to mitigate any fines and penalties they will assess and to preserve and protect our overall membership community.

It doesn’t matter where the benefits are for (even if it’s out of state as in your suggestion) when their state of residence is Washington.

We are working on a variety of different options right now. When we are able to roll the best option out, we will definitely be letting everyone know.

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Today. Radio Talk Show host Lars Larson discussed the issue with the WA Insurance Commissioner.
Here is a link to the discussion.

It did not sound to me that the Insurance Commissioner has a firm understanding of the issue and may have prematurely acted. Or is being directed to act in this specific way by other parties.

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Oh.My.GOD. is he just an idiot? :scream:
I just can’t even. :scream: :unamused::woman_facepalming:
That man cannot even begin to think through a simple and accurate analogy.

Good job Lars.
The insurance commissioner? OMG. WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN?
:dizzy_face:
:face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

Doesn’t understand? Not capable, from what I can tell.
He’s got a story and hes sticking to it. Facts be damned.
:face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

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My first thought to your comment Zee is “WHAT BRAIN”

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Seriously, that was painful to listen to.

@dawn, this is so astonishing it may need it’s own thread.

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And this guy is in charge of anything? OMG he just has an anti gun agenda if you ask me. That or someone above him is pulling his strings which I would think is the case after listening to that whole thing.

He doesn’t want to answer yes or no questions and even after he does, he is saying it is different because guns are involved.

@Zee you are so right it was so very painful.

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All Washington gun owners are hereby invited to move across the border into Idaho. All liberty-minded people welcome!

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WOW! I’m listening to the recording now. Lars is making some great points.

** Edited: This is definitely worth the time to listen to if you’re into the legal aspect of the Insurance Commissioner’s position.

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I…wait, he said…It isn’t …legally…aaarrrggghhh!

How did this man get his job??? He’s an idiot. And I don’t think he was taking it, or being deliberately obtuse. Of course, being an idiot makes him an attractive employee for someone higher up to use as a puppet. But this guy is a genuine moron, IMO.

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I’m going to step in here and remind everyone to be civil about this. We don’t have to like him, but the name calling won’t help anyone’s point of view.

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@Dawn, I was actually trying to be accurate, not derisive.
However, point taken. I’ll be more careful in the future.

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Here is the exchange I had with OIC in Washington regarding this:

to them:
Are you kidding me? What is WRONG with you. Washington state residents living outside of immediate LOE carry firearms for self protection. I have taken extensive training for that purpose. During that training we are told time and again that if we are involved in a use of force event there is an overwhelming chance we will be sued. Now you come along and take that protection away from us. WHY? I can promise you that if I am involved in a use of force and I am sued, and I can’t procure insurance, I will hold you PERSONALLY responsible. Your decision is a thinly veiled attack on my 2nd amendment rights as well as my God given right to protect myself against harm. You may believe yourself to be operating within the confines of the law but you certainly are morally deficit in this action.

They respond:

We received your comments on USCCA. I think you will find the following helpful in understanding the issues and this office’s activities with the overall subject of defense coverage.

  • USCCA’s attorney advised the OIC that USCCA voluntarily and proactively stopped selling policies in Washington State, and has not accepted any new or renewal memberships in Washington since January 31, 2019. Consumers who want to know why or want more information should contact USCCA.
  • OIC did not direct USCCA to stop selling insurance here and the OIC has not issued any orders against USCCA.
  • OIC did take action against Illinois Union (underwriter) and Lockton Affinity (producer) for selling a liability product that insured illegal activity. The insurer had the option to modify the product so that it complied with state law and could still be sold to WA consumers. The insurer chose to instead stop selling the product in Washington State.
  • Consumers can contact their agent or broker if they are interested in finding an insurance policy that covers civil defense. Washington state law permits products that cover civil defense. The scope of OIC investigations are limited to insurance policies and products and if they violate state laws. None of the OIC investigations or orders has any effect on gun laws or citizens’ rights to own firearms. The reference number for our contact is 1608189.

Compliance Analyst
Consumer Protection
Washington State Office of the Insurance Commissioner
800.562.6900
brendenW@oic.wa.gov

My response to Brendon:
You tell residents one story and USCCA another one. I’m ashamed of our state’s biased and hateful opinion of a legally protected activity. I live, and frequently travel, in an area that is not staffed with a large contingent of police presence. In the event I am forced to protect myself I am now going to have to pay out of pocket to further protect myself from ambulance chasers that will surely sue me. I sincerely don’t know how OIC staff can look at themselves in the mirror. It doesn’t matter to you or the commissioner but it does to the thousands of legal CHL carriers in the state. I guess we can only hope beyond hope we change administration in the next election.

AAAAAND… Good luck to me but at least I feel better.

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So once my policy expires, unless the situation involves my personal safety, I should not intervene. I should call
911 and hope no one dies in the interim?
Then the family of the deceased can sue the state for essentially preventing me from stopping the situation? Or maybe I get get sued anyway for having the potential to save a life and don’t act?
INSANITY

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It is pretty well the definition of insanity @Brad10 :rage:
California is trying to take that crazy up a notch as well… there are proposals by some legislators to make liability insurance mandatory if you own a gun and by other legislators to make that very same insurance illegal. :open_mouth:

@dawn will keep us updated… I know the USCCA folks are working on an alternate solution for WA and the other states that have lost their minds.

Glad you’re here anyway.

I hope you believe me when I say that this isn’t our preference, @Brad10! We want to be able to help as many responsibly armed Americans as we possibly can. The situation is frustrating for us, but I cannot imagine the level of frustration you’re going through in WA.

Remember, you are not a police officer, you do not have the obligation to act on behalf of anyone else. (I know that does little good for those who believe in protecting the innocent. It would be hard to stand by and not engage out of fear for legal repercussions.)

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We’ll get sued whether it is legal or not. Liberals have the most corrupt lawyers who don’t give a hoot about what is right. They want to make a bad example out of every situation involving a gun in order to shift public perception, and scare people into not carrying legally in public.

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Dawn,
I feel that the USCCA has not been up front and honest with me, and my wife both Washington State residents and long standing USCCA Members. If the USCCA stopped selling its memberships in the State of Washington, on or about January 2019 either voluntarily or due to WA. State Law, Why weren’t all Washington State Member’s notified, of this issue. I learned this change just today and by accident while I was looking over the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Map. After reading ALL of the comments and listening to the Lars Larson interview, I am not sure that if I would have had to use my legal defense insurance, through my membership. I would have been covered, thus I was given a false sense of security, for the 2019 year. Very Unprofessional on the part of the USCCA. Looking into membership I am supposedly covered for another 36 days. I have not received any e-mail notification or call regarding this issue. I feel that the USCCA owes the members of Washington State, and maybe New York State a reduced member membership, if this situation gets resolved. We have lost a year of what we felt to be reliable security. The attorneys that the USCCA has at it’s disposal should be bringing an action in both states, just using a few of the examples that Lars Larson brought up to Mike Kreidler, the Insurance Commissioner for Washington, comparing defensive coverages sold in the State of Washington. By thousands of insurance carriers. I do not believe that each police has met the terminology requirements that Mike Kreider stated in his interview, that he is requiring be met by the USCCA policy. I realize that Washington State is a VERY Liberal and Anti-Gun State. However looking at the motto /platform of the USCCA Well trained, well educated, responsible, armed American Citizen. WHY did they walk away from their members in this state?? Lets Look at the 2nd Amendment>