Tired of shooting paper at the range?

Yeah, I’m getting that impression, @Dawn. This was a legitimate gun range, not some pond out in the woods. It was designed with safety in mind. I doubt there was any danger of a ricochet, and I hope my reply to @Aaron25 clears up any confusion I may have caused.

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Understood, but…

I’m concerned that we avoid potentially dangerous situations. Accident avoidance is the focus of the safety rules. And having a new shooter read this and think it’s ok to shoot at water…not knowing the potential for ricochet (and if they aren’t standing like you were on a pronounced angle), nothing good can come from this.

I appreciate your concerns, @Aaron25, but this whole area was designed and built by people who understood all this. Granted, it was in the 1960s, but a .22LR (lrn) still behaved much the same way then, as it does now. I cannot possibly “know,” but I “believe” they had my and other shooters’ best interests in mind when they designed all of the shooting areas in their range.

That said, let’s have a look at the situation in your link. To simplify, let’s say the “steep embankment" is a sheer cliff, and the stump is exactly to the right of the shooter. Worst case, the river is at its crest, 18 feet below the shooter. So the point of impact is 300 feet to the right and 18 feet down.

This yields a right triangle that is 18 feet down and 300 feet (100 yards) away to the right. The .22 hits the water at an angle that works out to be just under 3 and a half degrees, which is pretty shallow! (Even if the river was at its low point, at 23 feet below the shooter, the angle would still be just under 4 and a half degrees.) I’d say it’s a safe bet that anything below 5 degrees will skip off the water’s surface.

I, in contrast, was maybe 50 feet from the center of that pond which was about 25 feet below my station. The impact angle in this case is almost 27 degrees: at this angle the bullet enters the water and does not skip across it.

Best,

Alex

Do you all think the Swamp People worry about skipping a bullet off the water? Sheesh.
Stop sucking the fun from other peoples pleasures, I’m sure he @AlexV is a big boy and can make up his own mind. :roll_eyes:

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Thanks for the support, @Bruce26. Swamp People have about 300 years of genetic refinement that helps them avoid doing something stupid. My guess is they instinctively know not to do things that might endanger their friends and family. Would that we were so lucky…

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@AlexV I grew up hunting for the table, you took the first shot offered, not all were perfect.
That is the difference between people who grew up with guns in the country and woods and people who only shoot for fun. We used to make deer drives with 2 to 20 people, everyone knew there place and no one was ever hurt, now days OMG someone might get hurt.
We used to throw apples into a moving river and shoot them, good practice. :wink:
Shoot on Brother.

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There was no way that was 1000 yards. The time between the BOOM and the smack was way too close together. Nominally for a 750gr boolet at 2800 fps the TOF (Time of Flight) is 1.42 seconds and given that the return time would be double or more so roughly 4.25 seconds to get hit in the ear muff. Near as my mouse could click was ~2 seconds and you could hear the round coming back before it got there which means it was subsonic. Mebby 300 yards give or take.

Cheers,

Craig6

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People with more time, money and math skills then me. :grinning:

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I’m more of a rifle guy but this applicable to pistols if you have a range that can support it. In some of my advanced classes I will combine Kim’s Game, Observation Skills and Precision Rifle Fire. Open field, elevated platform a bunch of old 308 or 7.62X54R cases. Instructors put out 10 cases mounted on sticks so that the are above the grass line in random places, other instructors will record the location. The shooting team will have 1 minute to memorize the instructor drawings and 30 minutes to locate and range the “targets” (no lasers) then they will have 45 seconds and 10 rounds to engage the targets. Makes for a fun “lunch break”.

For pistols hunting 12Ga shells is a valuable teaching tool if you have never fired at the ground inside of 3 feet (at say a snake). If you have the opportunity to try it I highly recomend it and recommend dirt or sand as your back stop. Most folks will miss the first and unless they understand why will continue to miss.

Cheers,

Craig6

If you call Red 5, you get to blow up the Death Star. Everybody knows that drill.

[quote=“BRUCE26, post:24, topic:25467”]
Stop sucking the fun from other peoples pleasures, I’m sure he @AlexV is a big boy and can make up his own mind. :roll_eyes:
[/quote

I grew up in the woods–hunting, camping, fishing. I got shot by someone who was just that cavalier with hunting safety when I was 13. Junior year we buried a classmate from another ‘big boy who could make up his own mind.’

15 years ago we did the funeral for the son of an elder I served with who was shot and killed by his best friend on a deer drive. He had to go back to the cabin they pwned together, where both of their extended families were, and tell everyone he had killed their dad/son/husband/godfather–Thanksgiving day. Yeah, OMG someone might get hurt.

I don’t know you to know if your comments are bluster, recklessness or lack of information.
I would consider it unwise to take a chance. After having taught hunter safety for a decade and speaking with wardens and LEO who have worked with the people involved in negligent discharges, being responsible for unintentional injury/death is something we should work to avoid.

@Aaron25 If you were talking to a 10 year old in class I wouldn’t have commented. I am sure Alex is an experienced shooter and doesn’t need to go through a Hunter Safety lecture by several people.
We all have different experiences and comfort levels. As Dawn said recently “everyone has an opinion and we all know what opinions are like” (putting it nicely).
We agree to disagree. nuff said. :+1:

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I met a few guys like you in the Air Force. While I was trying to figure out which end the bullet came out of, they were drawing eyes, nose, and a smile on the target at 25 yards :slight_smile:

This is a nice forum.

Alex

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Truth be told, I bought my first gun three years ago. I’m here for exactly that reason: to get many personal opinions from many individuals so I can sort them out and benefit from the best and the most applicable.

@BRUCE26 and my apologies to both of you for my tone yesterday.

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I’m gonna call a time out here. There are a lot of people who are new to shooting here and might not know about the risk of ricocheting off water. It’s not something we discuss often.

The first time I heard it, I didn’t necessarily believe it. Sounded too far fetched.

However, it does happen and it’s something people should know about. I don’t think @AlexV intentionally or even unintentionally put anyone at risk given the layout of the range he discussed.

I think @AlexV’s comment provided a good opportunity to discuss the risk of ricochet for all who are new to shooting. Discuss, not attack anyone.

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I had to look that one up :open_mouth: Sorry, I’m not up on the Star War lingo :slight_smile:

I like the remote car/balloon idea !

I could see using this for the Teller Drill too. That is if the car could support a balloon with a 4’ dowel. What a great demonstration on closing speed, getting off the X etc.

Thanks for the great idea Jeff748

Glad to share