# This could be an interesting discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Good Guy With a Gun\ **Created:** [May 30, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637 "2025-05-30T00:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:51pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/45 "2025-06-02T12:51:25Z")
_Medicinal purposes_.😎 ---
**Author:** ![Doug101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Doug101](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Doug101)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 1:06pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/46 "2025-06-02T13:06:43Z")
Think about this. If the perp had shot at him and then pulled the gun down to his side, should he be able to shoot? In this case, if the perp hit him with the car, should he be able to defend by using his firearm? To me, same same. Both ways the perp was using a deadly weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Gregory258](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/gregory258/32/160312_2.png) [@Gregory258](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Gregory258)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 1:31pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/47 "2025-06-02T13:31:54Z")
A more accurate question would be, if the perp shot at him, dropped his gun to his side, turned, and started running away, would it be justified to shoot the perp in the back while fleeing? You don’t get to use lethal force just because someone tried to do the same to you but is no longer a threat. In your example, they’re still a threat, but that’s not what happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Gregory258](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/gregory258/32/160312_2.png) [@Gregory258](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Gregory258)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 1:33pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/48 "2025-06-02T13:33:35Z")
To be clear, in NM, a smoke shop is not a dispensary. There is no cannabis sold from this shop. (Or at least there shouldn’t be) ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/49 "2025-06-02T13:44:14Z")
I am pretty sure that sign is photoshopped or on the store next-door/next-store.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gregory258](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/gregory258/32/160312_2.png) [@Gregory258](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Gregory258)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 2:03pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/50 "2025-06-02T14:03:08Z")
It’s honestly probably related to the Walgreens pharmacy nextdoor. But my point to you was that there’s a distinction between a smoke shop and a dispensary in NM. Smoke shops sell accessories, but not weed. Only dispensaries actually sell weed. ---
**Author:** ![Doug101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Doug101](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Doug101)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/51 "2025-06-02T14:39:55Z")
So, if a perp shoots at you and runs for cover because you are pulling your gun, you can’t shoot him? If that is the case then he goes for cover and I have to wait for him to shoot at me again after he gets to his preferred position. That makes no sense to me. He has already tried to apply deadly force. The only way I can defend my self is if I get hit by a bullet? Same with the car, the guy is defending against his action. He could just as easily turn around and do it again or put it in reverse and try it again. He has already shown that he is willing to use it as a deadly weapon. Should I give him a second chance? Is he not a threat because he started running or driving? Is he still in control of the deadly weapon he was using? When does a gunfight stop? I agree the merchant shouldn’t have chased him to begin with but then the circumstances change if he was hit by the car and especially since the perp had already committed a crime and was committing another with a hypothetical hit and run. It will be an interesting case for sure. None of us can call it without a lot more true information. ---
**Author:** ![BeanCounter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/beancounter/32/173526_2.png) [@BeanCounter](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/BeanCounter)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 2:43pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/52 "2025-06-02T14:43:24Z")
> [@Doug101](#): > > true information …which pretty much is, when did the threat stop? ---
**Author:** ![Doug101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Doug101](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Doug101)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/53 "2025-06-02T14:54:24Z")
That is the toughest part. It is something you can’t truly know. Is it when the perp begins walking away with his weapon or the driver gets out of his car? Or maybe when they get out of sight? ---
**Author:** ![Sinbad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Sinbad](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Sinbad)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/54 "2025-06-02T15:11:44Z")
> [@Doug101](#): > > So, if a perp shoots at you and runs for cover because you are pulling your gun, you can’t shoot him? I would recommend anyone reading this thread do the following. 1. research the circumstances under which you can legally shoot someone running away from you. Look for the works of Andrew Branca and Masad Ayoob. Go take their classes if you can afford to. 2. Think about crimes that have actually happened. Do bad guys “run for cover?” How do you know he’s running for cover and not running away? Seems to me to be unlikely that someone who is running away from you in an on the street encounter is falling back to w defensible position to further shoot at you. They are usually running away. We can “what if” all day long. We can’t shoot someone because they may come back and shoot again. We have to have some sort of evidence that gives us a very solid level of indication that the perp continues to pose that imminent threat of grave bodily harm or death to an innocent person. 3. CYA stands for Can You Articulate. Can you articulate to a jury of your peers why you did what you did and why it meets the legal standard? Keep in mind that this jury has unlimited time to think about what you did with only seconds to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mike164](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/mike164/32/52494_2.png) [@Mike164](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Mike164)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 3:13pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/55 "2025-06-02T15:13:14Z")
In the hand to hand world we talk about this all of the time. You attack me I disarm you and use the gun/knife You Brought to the fight against you. Did the threat end as soon as I took the gun/knife? It’s a tough one for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Doug101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Doug101](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Doug101)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/56 "2025-06-02T15:35:28Z")
1. I ordered the book by Masad Ayoob Monday. It should arrive today. 2. It is unlikely but not unheard of by any means. How do you decide which one they will choose to do. They already have a deadly weapon whether a car or a gun. They have already tried to harm me, I have no real indication that would stop just because they lower their gun or put the transmission in drive. All I can go on is prior actions. 3. That is very true and I have said that before. Judges, juries, and DA’s are sometimes the scariest people of them all. ---
**Author:** ![Mike164](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/mike164/32/52494_2.png) [@Mike164](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Mike164)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 3:43pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/57 "2025-06-02T15:43:34Z")
> [@Doug101](#): > > juries I sat on a jury where a guy shot another guy 5 times, he lived. Of the 12 Jurors 4 had actually fired a gun. That’s who will be deciding your fate. > [@On the Jury - Claimed Self Defense](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/on-the-jury-claimed-self-defense/78163): > > I spent the last week sitting on a jury for a case that hinged on Self Defense. [Shooting at West Valley City birthday party sends 1 to hospital, 1 man in custody | KSL.com](https://www.ksl.com/article/46767654/shooting-at-west-valley-city-birthday-party-sends-1-to-hospital-1-man-in-custody). Basically, there was a party attended by a lot of people, during the party a guy punches another guy in the face. The guy that got punched in the face did not respond he just walks away from the party. His friend, looking around the party for his buddy finds out he got hit in the face and left on foot. The friend goes after… ---
**Author:** ![BeanCounter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/beancounter/32/173526_2.png) [@BeanCounter](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/BeanCounter)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/58 "2025-06-02T15:50:21Z")
> [@Sinbad](#): > > Can you articulate …under cross examination? ---
**Author:** ![Gregory258](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/gregory258/32/160312_2.png) [@Gregory258](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Gregory258)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/59 "2025-06-02T16:07:21Z")
Cross examination is worse. You have to not only articulate why you did what you did, but you also have to actively negate the opposing counsel putting words in your mouth with leading questions. ---
**Author:** ![Doug101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Doug101](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Doug101)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/60 "2025-06-02T16:15:24Z")
And what was the final verdict? Too me they guy that came to the house would be guilty of attempted murder. He initiated the conflict between himself and the homeowner and there apparently was no assault by the homeowner. Jurys are scary. So are DA’s. I say, don’t be there unless your life was in danger. ---
**Author:** ![Mike164](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/mike164/32/52494_2.png) [@Mike164](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Mike164)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/61 "2025-06-02T16:35:05Z")
My first impression was, the kid was afraid for his life, the OG came to the door and the kid freaked. During deliberations I was convinced otherwise. The kid Did Come BACK to the house, pulled the gun and shot the guy. We convicted him. ---
**Author:** ![Sinbad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Sinbad](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Sinbad)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/62 "2025-06-02T19:19:26Z")
> [@Doug101](#): > > I have no real indication that would stop just > because they lower their gun or put the transmission in drive. All I can go on is > prior actions. I guess this is where I respectfully disagree. Lowering the gun and putting a vehicle in drive is an action that must be considered. It can’t be ignored because of prior actions. In the opening post, the vehicle was driving away from the victim. If someone lowers the gun and runs away or puts a vehicle in drive and drives away from me I don’t see how I can keep shooting at them. For me at least, it’s going to be incredibly difficult to articulate that I truly believed the guy was running for cover so he could continue to shoot at me so I had no choice except to shoot back. I don’t shoot because “I can,” I shoot because I was put in a situation by the bad guy where all other options had been exhausted and I was left with no other choice but to shoot. I personally (IMHO, YMMV) think a guy that lowers his gun and turns away from me provided me with some other options other than continuing to dispense multiple doses of high velocity lead. Legal issues aside, what about tactics? If the bad guy is running away from me (even if I think he’s running for cover), why am I not running away from him, creating distance, and finding cover or concealment too? If the bad guy is driving his car in the opposite direction from me, why am I not taking that opportunity to escape? Is there anything that would stop a bullet or a vehicle that I can put between him and me? What’s the best tactic? I guess I’ll just say it, and I mean it kindly, in addition to making a poor legal choice, it seems (from what limited info I have) he very likely made some less than wise tactical choices too. ---
**Author:** ![Doug101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Doug101](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Doug101)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 8:02pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/63 "2025-06-02T20:02:08Z")
I agree with what you are saying but I do think the other can be and is true. The thing you said about someone lowering the gun and running “AWAY” is what bothers me. I just don’t think I (or actually anyone) can know that he is running away instead of going to cover or concealment. Not until the action is completed. I have seen videos of people firing while running and the same with looking for cover. You could run but my luck is not good, really. I would run and he would turn at the same time and it wouldn’t bother him a bit to fill my back with lead. I can’t run very well and all it does is keep my back to a man that is willing to shoot me or run me over. I would rather get to cover still facing him and be able to shoot if needed. If he keeps going out of my site, I wouldn’t shoot. But if he is within range for me to safely shoot at him, he is in range to shoot at me again. I like the saying that says, do something to me once, shame on you. Do something to me twice, shame on me. ---
**Author:** ![BeanCounter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/beancounter/32/173526_2.png) [@BeanCounter](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/BeanCounter)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637/64 "2025-06-02T20:27:20Z")
> [@Sinbad](#): > > I personally (IMHO, YMMV) think a guy that lowers his gun and turns away from me provided me with some other options …like leaving X in case he brings it up again. [Previous page](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/this-could-be-an-interesting-discussion/116637.md?page=4)