The Aftermath: Defending the Public Defender

Sometimes posting “No Trespassing” signs gives you a legal argument when dealing with unauthorized persons on your property.

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It was sarcasm. Not poking fun at you, just at gun free zones.

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Oh, I thought this :crazy_face: was your serious face. :wink:

No worries, I got it. Just mentioning.

I was thinking of this as I was shopping for groceries today. Whole Foods has a “No Guns” sign at the door, and those are enforced in New Mexico. But, they also have an armed guard in the store during open hours. So I guess they’re not suggesting the store is actually safe without guns, just that customers shouldn’t be allowed to defend themselves.

The DEFENDANT survived? Did he really?

I spend most of my yr in the N Selkirk Mtns at 5000 ft, I too might have called the police, up here their usual response time is 45-60 min. I would have stayed in the house, check to see which auto lights went on and observed. Living where I do, I never go outside at night without carrying a weapon and a very bright flashlight. Past night time issues in front of the house and on my back porch have included cougar, adult moose, deer, black bears, and drunks from the nearby ski area. Hopefully, I won’t have to deal w someone intent upon harming us, and would only shoot while inside if the house was breached. The SALT pepper ball gun has proved very effective against porch bears. 1000 lumens of flashing light scares the hell out of moose at night, which is great since they are not to be trifled with.

I wonder what the community, ( and any w actual legal defense experience) think about the utility of a 911 cal to police asking for help occurring before any escalation in an event of this type, should one have the unfortunate circumstance to deal with someone actually breaking in.

In today’s world you need to stand your ground and fight for what’s yours and protect what is yours family property that’s your god given right.

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I think to say that he shouldn’t have gone outside his home after hearing loud noises in his neighborhood is asking too much. I love my community! And I love my neighborhood! Everyone in my neighborhood would give the shirt off their back for one another. We really lookout for one another in my neighborhood. We stop and chat with each other to see how each other are doing whenever we can and always wave to each other when driving by and at least say hello and send well-wishes. That’s the kind of awesome neighborhood that I live in. And I have security cameras all around my property, and have told my neighbors that if they ever need to see my recordings if something happened out on the public street or in front of their property they are more than welcome to ask me for a copy of the video. But even then not many of us are fortunate enough to have security cameras on their private property. All of that being said, due to my love for my neighborhood and for my neighbors, my protective nature for those I love would take over and I would instinctively and protectively go outside to see what the heck was going on. I’ve actually run into this same scenario when I was in an apartment complex and a drug dealer was harassing tenants out in our parking lot as my apartment neighbors were trying to get to their homes. So, all of that being said, to ask someone not to inquire about very loud disruptive noises outside his home that is in a neighborhood that he loves is just wrong.
While Maryland, the state of my residence, has some crazy laws, as many, including their own residents would admit, my state of residence does have Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws, surprisingly I know. Lol! So as soon as this assailant entered the lawyer’s property he had every right to defend himself by any means necessary, in my state, as long as the assailant wasn’t fleeing at the time. If law enforcement at all levels is allowed to use deadly force when they fear bodily harm, then of course so are private citizens when they are on their private property. I always get bent out of shape when I hear people say that police should aim for the legs. Ummmmmm, hello, when someone is charging at you at full speed and full force, I don’t know if you’ve ever been charged at, but you CANNOT SEE their legs. Have you ever seen someone sprint? They are going forward and their chest is ahead or in front of their legs and feet. Military police have authorization to shoot someone in the head if they breach the gates of military installations to get the intruder’s foot off the gas pedal. Just saying. The assailant in this case was charging the lawyer at full speed (full speed ahead Scotty Lol) and full force while using his teeth, as knives (a certain boxer comes to mind lol, or “lethal weapon” comes to mind lol), trying to mortally bite, mame, or wound him. So yes, this lawyer did the right thing. I don’t believe he was in the wrong at all.

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Surprisingly, the vote is split! Curious? If you’re not a sworn officer of the law or a detective, don’t investigate strange noises or strange creatures “outside” your castle. Never open the door! If I feel there’s a felony taking place, I’ll dial 911. There was no threat until the door opened and the creature charged towards his meal.
However since he put himself into a deadly situation, IMHO, it was self defense. How so? Good guy is still alive. I’m not sure why the emphasis on the fact that he was a lawyer???
Until that creature enters my castle forcibly, then and only then will I shoot to stop the threat. There is no threat if the creature is outside my home!
I live in an area where there is a chance that creature and suspicious noise is a bear or panther, am I going to attempt to scare it off it trying to get in my car, absolutely not. If it breaks through the front window, by all means shoot.

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One more thought… observers and respondents talk about shooting in dire circumstance, but how many have actually shot a gun esp a more powerful one inside, w/o the sound baffles common at indoor ranges My experience, even w ear protection is that the sound is much louder than at the range. To preserve my hearing to some extent in that situation, I keep a suppressor on my 300 pistol and have one to attach to the 9mm. I’ve experienced suppressed subsonic 300 AC inside w/o protection, and my ears only rang for an hour, not for days from un-suppressed gunfire !

The science says a single 140-150 decibel indoor gunshot causes a degree of permanent hearing damage. I realize that to save my and/or my family’s lives my hearing really doesn’t matter… but what does the community think? Am I just a supressor nut?

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I disagree. Stay in your house and stand your ground behind closed doors. Property can be replaced, not a life. All lives are valuable and killing someone should be the absolute last resort.

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It’s a topic that’s been sparsely discussed, but my wife and I keep headsets/hearing protection with our nightstand weapons!
Legally where this goes in a courtroom, I don’t want to find out!
Furthermore, the court room will be filled with liberal peers! So if bad guy creature doesn’t kill me, the jury will!
Castle rules at my home, if you’re banging at my door, no matter what time of day/night and your arm is hanging from a tendon and you’re on fire and you voted for Biden, I’ll just go back to watching TV, if you voted for Trump I’ll dial 911.
Hey, they created this atmosphere!

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Supressed 9 mm & subsonic 200gr 300AAC fire indoors w good equipment won’t permanently damage hearing as it’s only about 130db One thing I didn’t mention is that after a few unsupressed round in an interior room or hall, those exposed may momentarily be unable to hear quiet conversation… in a complex home invasion… this could be a fatal issue… that being said, most home invasions are over w the first forceful deadly homowner response… I would just like to be able to hear the 911 operator when I make that my next call

Absolutely did the right thing. It is now the polices’ job to protect your property. It’s your job.

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I actually would have called 911, taken a defensive position and waited in house

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Sorry, I’m not a public defender. I’m a nobody. But, if I’m armed, confident, and obviously want to protect my family, I’m not going to wait 5, 10, 15 or however many minutes for a response to a 911 call. I’m going to ask my wife to call while I go address the situation. Case closed.

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Look, After you open the door, go outside, and shoot and kill an attacker on your property, No matter what Stand your Ground, or Castle state you are , IF your public defenders are elected, NOT appointed… you may face charges and trial… Just so they can get publicity… that’s the reality

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If you live out in the country 911 would be hours to arrive in case of a noise outside. I would mot have gone out immediately assumption. Urban dwellers may have that option rural not so much.

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I live rural and the Sheriff’s department could be 15-30 minutes away. We have Castle and SYG but I would stay inside, put my family and myself in a defendable room, inform the SD of exactly where we are, how many of us, and in what room we are in. Watch my cameras and tell the dispatcher as much information as possible about who, how many, heights, characteristics, of those I did not invite into my house.

Restrained the perpetrator, disarm him.

I would not recommend this course of action, but I’m a black belt in Judo and former British Soldier trained in unarmed combat & Akido.

In some states like il. a taser is illegal, and not sure about the pepper spray. il. sucks.