"Swarming" - group attack

Pepper spray has various effects… it is debilitating for a large portion of the population, has less effect on a small percentage, and does not significantly impact a few. A sherrif friend of mine had to be pepper sprayed along with the rest of her academy class… in a class of about 25, there were 3 who weren’t as severely impacted and could still function somewhat and one who’s eyes ran but who wasn’t disabled… basically could still function well enough to be a threat.
That’s not too far off the normal distribution of effectiveness.
That being said, the same distribution probably applies to bad guys… itll stop most of them, and slow down almost all the rest.
That’s pretty good effectiveness.
The same is true for firearms… being shot affects different people differently… someone jacked up on PCP, adrenaline and rage may not go down on the first shot. That doesn’t make a firearm a bad choice… just means you have to have as much on your side as possible… tools, awareness, skills, good sense and lots of training to make sure it all works for you.

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Zee nails it on the head. Different things have a different effect on different people.

And that’s why we have a variety of self-defense options from pepper spray to tasers to firearms.

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If they are going for money, a strategy I’ve heard of is carrying two very different wallets (so you don’t confuse them)… one with $2, maybe some old credit cards and an ID (no longer valid w/ different #’s than current one) and one with the real cards & $$.
That way you have something to give them that doesn’t mean much, and they’ll likely hit you a few times and find another target. When they leave maybe you can call it in!


In 79 I was on a ride along when we got a call for a domestic.

Before the officer even got out of the call the enraged abuser came storming out armed to the teeth and firing.

He absorbed 18 rounds of 9mm to the torso and was still fighting right up to his dying breath when head shot finally ended it.

Turned out he was loaded with both speed and smoking MJ laced with PCP and soaked in formaldehyde.


It’s amazing how many guys can fight through even multiple taser hits while others are instantly incapacitated.

Far too unreliable to ever bet your life on a Taser.


Very very scary.
I have a friend who was special forces and saw a lot of active duty… he’s got a dozen or so bullet scars, some acquired in twos and threes. There are some people who don’t find being shot much of a deterrent. In his case, it just knocks him down, then makes him angry, then he gets up and finishes you off.
Fortunately for us he’s one of the good guys.

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WOW! Glad he’s one of the good guys. Far too often, the ones who don’t “feel” it are high like @WildRose was talking about:


That’s why is dangerous to get hung up on how many times are you allowed to shoot.

You shoot till the reason you began shooting is no longer a threat.


Unfortunately I ate my share of both lead and steel. I’m one of those guys who just immediately gets enraged almost to the point of losing my mind when I get hurt and I won’t really feel it until the event is over. I’ve been that way since I was a kid.

The general rule was to avoid getting in a fight with me because even though I was very small for my age till I got in high school I had a reputation for biting like a pit bull and twisting things till they broke or came out of socket.f

The only thing I’m a complete weenie about is electricity, HA!

I’ve seen all kinds, and the truth is you simply cannot predict how a person is going to react to being sprayed, tazed, even hit with rubber slugs or bean bags or actually being shot until it happens.

That’s why personally I will never recommend less than lethal alternatives if you life is on the line. In general the rule for LEO’s is that you only rely on the less lethal alternatives if there is not a clear threat of grave bodily harm or death from the subject unless you have backup with lethal coverage.

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Yep, but as Non LEO’s we’re bound by law not to fire one more round than it takes to stop the threat.

I see a lot of LEO shootings get ruled as “clean shoots” for which a civilian taking the exact same action would find themselves at least on trial for, and probably convicted of manslaughter if not murder.

It’s not our job to stop bad guys at any cost, to punish, or arrest them and we don’t have qualified immunity that is granted to leo’s.

Even if we manage to beat the charge we stand a good chance of losing everything in the civil case that follows.

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Doing the “vary your daily routine as well as routes” was something taught to us while I was in Germany (this was in the early 1980s and the cold war was still in full swing). The people in my unit had a high percentage of being watched as well as followed.

To this day I frequently change my daily driving routes (some habits die hard).


Yep, in that era not only were the Soviets always trying to figure out what we were doing you also had to worry about the “Red Brigade” and “Greens” who were really bad about hitting Americans in housing areas or en route to/from post or base.

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