Stress shooting anyone?

Believe me from personal experience, you will never feel more alive than when bullets are whizzing past your head!

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He said Rob asked one of the students to take a look at his brand new high end pistol. The guy hands it to Rob and he throws it into the woods. Guy asked why? Rob says ā€œYou donā€™t deserve that gun.ā€

So, whatā€™s the moral of that story?

I donā€™t know who Rob Pincus is, but that story makes me think heā€™s a jerk and a bully. Thereā€™s no excuse for that behavior in that situation.

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Rob Pincus is a great guy. You may not like him, but you will admire him once you know who he is.

Such behavior is not a bad ā€¦ if I see shitty shooter showing up with $4k pistolā€¦ iā€™d do the sameā€¦ ā€œYou donā€™t deserve such handgunā€ :upside_down_face:

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He might be a jerk to some, but heā€™s a hell of a researcher and teacher. Might want to do some research into him. His work on defensive shooting is legendary and is based on studies of THOUSANDS of videos of actual shootings.

The result is that if you are not at the right level or pretty secure in your abilities, go somewhere else for training first.

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Now that makes sense. I was trying to figure why Rob asked one of the students to take a look at his brand new high end pistol.

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I think the point that Rob was making when he threw the gun into the woods is this: If you donā€™t know how to start a Piper Cub, DONā€™T be thinking you can climb into the cockpit of an F-35 and fly the thing.

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Yepā€¦. And there are times when a public kick in the ass works wonders in someone that is less than focused.

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Still no excuse for that behavior. He may be as skilled as you say, but thatā€™s a crappy teaching style, no matter the subject. In my experience, jerks are jerks to everyone. Itā€™s just the some folks seem to feel they have to put up with it.

Also, are you suggesting that a new shooter should start out with low quality equipment because they ā€œdonā€™t deserveā€ higher quality gear? A person can buy any firearm they want; theyā€™re not required to earn anyoneā€™s approvalā€“they just have to earn the money to pay for it. Who the hell are you or Rob Pincus to pronounce judgement from on high as to what gun another person does or doesnā€™t ā€˜deserveā€™?

By the way, over the years Iā€™ve seen a lot of new people show up on this board and introduce themselves as being at the very beginning of their firearm/self defense journey. I canā€™t recall ONE EXAMPLE when any of you told them to go out and buy themselves a crappy gun because they donā€™t ā€˜deserveā€™ anything better until they prove themselves to YOU and have your permission.

Fair enough. If a student signs up for a class that is too advanced for them then the trainer should, privately or publicly, explain to them that they donā€™t have the prerequisite foundational skills to benefit from this class or perform the exercises safely. Maybe make a suggestion as to a class or trainer who would better suit their current training needs. Public humiliation isnā€™t required, and often does more harm than good.

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You are so far off on ALL your points. Some people donā€™t require, or want, coddling. Tell me I suck LOUDLY and youā€™ll motivate me to get better and prove you wrong. But, if you give me a participation trophy and be a cheerleader Iā€™ll lose all respect for you. As my daughter is fond of saying ā€œ Life is tough, wear a helmet.ā€.

BTW all this goes to stress shooting. Trading under a TOUGH instructor will teach you ALL about stress shooting. I was in one instructor training class for 3 days with over 50% failure rate, some folks just packed up their ā– ā– ā– ā–  and QUIT! You should see ā€œINSTRUCTORSā€ fail, sweat out stages and drills, and MISS targets at 3 yards. THAT is fun!!!

But in any case, not your speed? Donā€™t sign up for his classes. Heā€™s not hurting for businessā€¦

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Last comment:

Who said anything about coddling or cheerleading or participation trophies? Iā€™m talking about a little common civility and an adult manner of interacting with other adults. You seem to be saying that anything other than screaming public humiliation is ā€œcoddlingā€.

I am capable of learning anything because I WANT to or I NEED to, and Iā€™ve done quite well in that regard. I would be there to improve my skills, not to prove you [or anyone else] wrong or impress you. Be tough on me; be honestly critical of my performance; tell me/show me how I screwed up, be aggressive even. I donā€™t need ā€˜humiliation rageā€™ to motivate me. I measure myself against who I was yesterday, not who you are today. I spent my entire young life being taught a whole lot of things by my WWII drill instructor father who had also been a Marine in the late 1920ā€™s. Nobody has anything to show me about tough teaching.

That being said, if you need his style of ā€˜motivationā€™ to get fired up then by all means, sign up for all his classes, come early and stay late. To each their own. One size never fits all.

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I didnā€™t mean to kick the hornets nest with regards to Rob Pincus. :rofl:

So much could be said in responseā€¦

Robā€™s teaching style can be debated all day long. Itā€™s going to work for some and not work for others. There were some guys in the class that got singled out multiple times to the point I do believe it hindered their ability to actually learn the techniques.

Rob seemed to have a competition with himself: can he use the ā€œf bombā€ more times in each subsequent sentence than he did in the previous sentence. I should have pointed this out in the profanity thread that @Don102 started (since Rob has written a ton of USCCA material it seems relevant.) I donā€™t know why firearms trainers think profanity works for emphasis and supposedly makes the material stick. Rob isnā€™t alone here. I donā€™t speak that way, but I also realized it was a gun class and not a Sunday school class. (And no, I donā€™t flag posts here including profanity.) I also suspect if the stink does hit the fan, those that respond to the scene are likely gonna be using some profanity. :upside_down_face:

I got singled out once. He taught a different style of mag changes than what I had previously been taught. He was not wrong. But when I got singled out and put in front of the class to do the technique, I never got it right due to previous training and the mental stress he imposes upon students. On the other hand, Iā€™ll never forget the technique he taught and there is more to the learning process than what happens in the classroom or on the gun range. So was it really effective? Yeah, probably.

The class I took with Rob supposedly had no prerequisites. But I was sure glad I had prior training. I would not recommend it for a beginner in line with what @Enzo_T referenced.

During breaks and down time Rob was very personable. He had at least one repeat student that he obviously had a very good rapport with. That guy got no preferential treatment when class was in session.

It was a good class. I learned a lot. Rob knows his stuff. It was a good experience to be subjected to Robā€™s teaching style. But honestly, most of what Rob presented was covered in other courses I took (which isnā€™t the only reason to take a class). When I took Mag 40 with Masad Ayoob, Mas claims to have taught Rob everything he knew. :grinning: I suspect they all learn from each other which makes them all better.

One final thing (and I know weā€™re getting off topic), Rob taught a class of probably 15 of us on an indoor range. He was the solo instructor. It worked. It was fine. It was good. But every other place I have trained had one or two main instructors and then several others who helped individual students. This really allows the student to 1) learn from multiple instructors in one class and 2) get individual attention as needed. In larger classes, itā€™s also necessary to maintain safety.

Bottom line, a one-day class with Rob is not a budget breaker (I think it was $250). Even if his style rubs you the wrong way, heā€™s gonna teach you something. Am I going to drive 3 hours into the Peopleā€™s Republic of New Jersey to go take another class from him anytime soon? I donā€™t know. But if heā€™s in your area, I recommend you go take one of his classes.

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Your description of Rob Pincus teaching style reminds me of when I 1st started Free Diving, i.e., taking one breath and swimming down underwater ā€“ then stalking and shooting a fish before returning to surface and air again. I had many years of experience SCUBA spearfishing in conditions most people would never jump into when I met John.

John was former military and was always super nice, calm, and talkative on the boat ride part of the trip because I worked with military and traveled base to base frequently, so he could get the pulse of active duty from me . Once on dive site he became a drill sergeant shouting orders and acting like the fish that were swimming around the whole time we drove the boat out there would immediately vacate because we arrived on site. He nit-picked if he thought you were putting on your equipment in the wrong order (which was BS) and you were never moving fast enough, needed to run from one end of the boat with one fin on to put a line out, and just in general everything he could think of to raise my pulse rate. I am now a certified Free Diver and know staying calm and lowering your pulse rate is critical to not dying in this activity. I never had a great experience when John was on the boat, but did just fine and put a lot of fish on the deck on the trips he wasnā€™t there.

The bottom line is Johnā€™s style of ā€œteachingā€ and my style of ā€œlearningā€ did not mesh. In retrospect, knowing what I know now about free diving, I am fortunate I did not die.

On a side note, John owned a SCBUA shop. He invited me to go ā€œhomo divingā€ (suck and blow on a tank) with him one time. I put so many more quality fish on the deck than John he never invited me again. He also almost killed himself in decos without enough gas in his tank trying to catch up with me. I never went free diving with him on board again.

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It is winter here, so stress training has been hard to do. This weekend it was warm enough to get out to some wild land. We set up targets facing all directions down in a ditch. We circled them at 10 to 25 yards having to carry through mud and tall brush. Footing was terrible and never consistent, but we would take turns stopping drawing from our EDC holsters finding the target and putting rounds on target. I am not young anymore and after an hour of this I came out a hurting puppy, but felt really good about the training over standing in a warm range.

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Awesome stuff. Diving was never my thing. But that was a great read. I appreciate you sharing and enjoyed hearing about your experience.

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Happy Anny @Sinbad

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Hmm - I have looked into Pincus a bit. But never ā€œMetā€ him. While He seems a Good ā€œPromoterā€ of his services - Seems his primary objective is - Making Money ? ā€œMYā€ ā€œPrimary Objectiveā€ - In Teaching is - To be sure ā€œThe Studentā€ is fully capable of - Competently and Safely, Defending Him or Herself with minimum to No collateral damage.
ā€œIā€ am a TN State and DHS Certified: 1- Pistol Instructor, 2 - Home-Defense Instr & 3 - RSO(Range Safety Officer). For Me - ā€œMy Trainingā€ - 3 full weeks Instructor-Training and Certifying at the TN State/DHS Training Academy/Facilities - It was long, intense & thorough - including, ā€œjust to startā€ - a Combat-Shooting Qualifier (Shoot & Move). The instr said "Well - YOU CAN SHOOT ! :slight_smile: Also I was then and am Now a 10yr+ Monthly Combat-Competition Shooter, Pistol & Rifle. With some Real-Life Experience. ie ā€œBeen There - Done Thatā€.

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While I may not like everything about how Pincus teaches, he is the real deal. Former LEO and LEO instructor, etc.

I wouldnā€™t characterize him as in it to make money, but, hey, Iā€™ll admit it. While I love what I do, I canā€™t afford to go to work for free. So yeah, I go to work to earn money. It keeps my family from going hungry. We all win.

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