Stress shooting anyone?

Firearm Training
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I didn’t mean to kick the hornets nest with regards to Rob Pincus. :rofl:

So much could be said in response…

Rob’s teaching style can be debated all day long. It’s going to work for some and not work for others. There were some guys in the class that got singled out multiple times to the point I do believe it hindered their ability to actually learn the techniques.

Rob seemed to have a competition with himself: can he use the “f bomb” more times in each subsequent sentence than he did in the previous sentence. I should have pointed this out in the profanity thread that @Don102 started (since Rob has written a ton of USCCA material it seems relevant.) I don’t know why firearms trainers think profanity works for emphasis and supposedly makes the material stick. Rob isn’t alone here. I don’t speak that way, but I also realized it was a gun class and not a Sunday school class. (And no, I don’t flag posts here including profanity.) I also suspect if the stink does hit the fan, those that respond to the scene are likely gonna be using some profanity. :upside_down_face:

I got singled out once. He taught a different style of mag changes than what I had previously been taught. He was not wrong. But when I got singled out and put in front of the class to do the technique, I never got it right due to previous training and the mental stress he imposes upon students. On the other hand, I’ll never forget the technique he taught and there is more to the learning process than what happens in the classroom or on the gun range. So was it really effective? Yeah, probably.

The class I took with Rob supposedly had no prerequisites. But I was sure glad I had prior training. I would not recommend it for a beginner in line with what @Enzo_T referenced.

During breaks and down time Rob was very personable. He had at least one repeat student that he obviously had a very good rapport with. That guy got no preferential treatment when class was in session.

It was a good class. I learned a lot. Rob knows his stuff. It was a good experience to be subjected to Rob’s teaching style. But honestly, most of what Rob presented was covered in other courses I took (which isn’t the only reason to take a class). When I took Mag 40 with Masad Ayoob, Mas claims to have taught Rob everything he knew. :grinning: I suspect they all learn from each other which makes them all better.

One final thing (and I know we’re getting off topic), Rob taught a class of probably 15 of us on an indoor range. He was the solo instructor. It worked. It was fine. It was good. But every other place I have trained had one or two main instructors and then several others who helped individual students. This really allows the student to 1) learn from multiple instructors in one class and 2) get individual attention as needed. In larger classes, it’s also necessary to maintain safety.

Bottom line, a one-day class with Rob is not a budget breaker (I think it was $250). Even if his style rubs you the wrong way, he’s gonna teach you something. Am I going to drive 3 hours into the People’s Republic of New Jersey to go take another class from him anytime soon? I don’t know. But if he’s in your area, I recommend you go take one of his classes.

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Your description of Rob Pincus teaching style reminds me of when I 1st started Free Diving, i.e., taking one breath and swimming down underwater – then stalking and shooting a fish before returning to surface and air again. I had many years of experience SCUBA spearfishing in conditions most people would never jump into when I met John.

John was former military and was always super nice, calm, and talkative on the boat ride part of the trip because I worked with military and traveled base to base frequently, so he could get the pulse of active duty from me . Once on dive site he became a drill sergeant shouting orders and acting like the fish that were swimming around the whole time we drove the boat out there would immediately vacate because we arrived on site. He nit-picked if he thought you were putting on your equipment in the wrong order (which was BS) and you were never moving fast enough, needed to run from one end of the boat with one fin on to put a line out, and just in general everything he could think of to raise my pulse rate. I am now a certified Free Diver and know staying calm and lowering your pulse rate is critical to not dying in this activity. I never had a great experience when John was on the boat, but did just fine and put a lot of fish on the deck on the trips he wasn’t there.

The bottom line is John’s style of “teaching” and my style of “learning” did not mesh. In retrospect, knowing what I know now about free diving, I am fortunate I did not die.

On a side note, John owned a SCBUA shop. He invited me to go “homo diving” (suck and blow on a tank) with him one time. I put so many more quality fish on the deck than John he never invited me again. He also almost killed himself in decos without enough gas in his tank trying to catch up with me. I never went free diving with him on board again.

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It is winter here, so stress training has been hard to do. This weekend it was warm enough to get out to some wild land. We set up targets facing all directions down in a ditch. We circled them at 10 to 25 yards having to carry through mud and tall brush. Footing was terrible and never consistent, but we would take turns stopping drawing from our EDC holsters finding the target and putting rounds on target. I am not young anymore and after an hour of this I came out a hurting puppy, but felt really good about the training over standing in a warm range.

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Awesome stuff. Diving was never my thing. But that was a great read. I appreciate you sharing and enjoyed hearing about your experience.

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Happy Anny @Sinbad

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Hmm - I have looked into Pincus a bit. But never “Met” him. While He seems a Good “Promoter” of his services - Seems his primary objective is - Making Money ? “MY” “Primary Objective” - In Teaching is - To be sure “The Student” is fully capable of - Competently and Safely, Defending Him or Herself with minimum to No collateral damage.
“I” am a TN State and DHS Certified: 1- Pistol Instructor, 2 - Home-Defense Instr & 3 - RSO(Range Safety Officer). For Me - “My Training” - 3 full weeks Instructor-Training and Certifying at the TN State/DHS Training Academy/Facilities - It was long, intense & thorough - including, “just to start” - a Combat-Shooting Qualifier (Shoot & Move). The instr said "Well - YOU CAN SHOOT ! :slight_smile: Also I was then and am Now a 10yr+ Monthly Combat-Competition Shooter, Pistol & Rifle. With some Real-Life Experience. ie “Been There - Done That”.

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While I may not like everything about how Pincus teaches, he is the real deal. Former LEO and LEO instructor, etc.

I wouldn’t characterize him as in it to make money, but, hey, I’ll admit it. While I love what I do, I can’t afford to go to work for free. So yeah, I go to work to earn money. It keeps my family from going hungry. We all win.

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The US Army has the best stress shooting program IMHO. The foreign (instructors) are actually trying to kill you. No better stress training on earth.

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Some real “safety third” vibes there. It definitely raises the stakes. I wonder what the stats are for mistakes and injuries. As I think about it…if you want to train for mall shooter or other real world scenarios, that would be as close as possible to training in those circumstances…”this would be a Russia only drill” shows the potential for major issues though.

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No. We don’t do that here. :winking_face_with_tongue: Welcome to the community, you’ll fit right in.

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yup - n arrogant & ignorant one

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It was not during training! I am sorry I didn’t make that clear.

I do know of a terrible training accident that occurred on a US base. A close friend of mine was in charge leading a squad to a bunker where they were to fire on another (empty) bunker. They came under fire as they were getting into their bunker. Several under his command were killed. The investigation revealed the RO directed them to the wrong bunker. The RO was court martialed.

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Enzo-T Sir Heres ya a Root Beer :beer_mug: Sir Love Bobby Jean and Debbie ann :feather::feather:Sir

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In Goldfield :wink:

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Went to a free training the other day offered by local 2A support organizations. One of the speakers shared whereby in his own training,

the range instructor had the group run only about a block distance, then immediately shoot off one set of rounds. They were surprised how poorly their accuracy suffered, from just that vigorous act alone.

Interesting.

No wonder so many encourage education and training; for “in the heat of the moment”; affecting hand-eye coordination..

Found these quotes about incidences when having a high heart rate/BPM.

" 100 BPM being a normal resting rate. 115 okay with activity, but 145-175 will severely affect your abilities.

During a high heart rate (tachycardia), the body prepares for a “fight-or-flight” response by releasing hormones like adrenaline, which increase heart rate and blood pressure. This can lead to physical symptoms such as shortness of breath, dizziness, chest pain, and a pounding sensation in the chest. If the fast heart rate doesn’t allow the heart to fill with enough blood, it can reduce oxygen to the body, causing weakness or even fainting. "

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…or pinging off your helmet. I agree with this statement to a point as the whizzing bullets will have a different effect on different people.

When I was in the Air Force, we had yearly small arms training where we got to go shoot Viet Nam era M-16s for a day, then we would go back to our regular duties. Fixing airplanes for me. Our training was not nearly as extensive as with Army or Marines, but we did have enough knowledge to operate the weapons in a required manner if needed. The mental aspect was the kicker.

I knew Uncle Sam was teaching me to shoot because one day I might really need to shoot, so I chose to pay attention. That extra attention saved my life and the lives of two others I was out in the sand box with. They did not pay attention, thinking they would never be faced with the situation we were in.

“It will never happen to me” is a myth where “It might happen to me” is the reality. Train like your life depends on it, because one day it just might.

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I’ve been shot at twice, once out with my buddy, I walked off into the woods to take a piss, I went 180* from the direction we were shooting for the exact reason of NOT getting shot at,….

He thought it would be funny to put a couple.22s through the trees above me.

The sound of the shots is far sharper when they’re heading your way, and the sound the bullets make as they pass (especially ticking through branches above you)….

What he forgot was I had a 9mm on my hip, never seen him move that fast in his life!

Obviously we were both aiming dozens of yards away from each other and it was extremely stupid and dangerous… but we were young and dumb just being jackasses :man_shrugging::man_facepalming:t2:

The other time was out 4 wheeling, as our party crossed an open shelf road shots rang out from across the valley.

The “fffffdwwwwiiiip THUMP” sound of the rounds hitting the hillside is definitely NOT something I ever want to hear again unless it’s a video.

We straight boogied through that section of trail!

Turns out he had been there for hours just shooting at 4 wheelers crossing that section of trail, because another group was at the trailhead with the sheriff already! one of their vehicles had actually been struck, thankfully nobody was hurt.

As far as I’m aware they never caught that guy.

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