Real situation

Be warned, language and violence.

There have been some discussions about cameras, people filming, etc. Here is a real life situation that very easily could have gone a number of different ways. This is a city about an hour from me, and I used to work in Jackson. This is near a very good gun and archery shop that has a couple grand of my money. While this situation does not result in a firearm, I think if you watch the video there are a lot of relevant points that we all need to think about in this day and age. There are a lot of things that happened right and wrong, but I am going to let you all open the discussion.

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I am confused - is this all about a camera - the guy dress in all black is weird but I still don’t get it

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There is a lot to discuss in that video. First, of course, the actions of the man in black who was clearly looking to be a youtube star. Then there are the actions of the men, then the interaction in general. Then we need to frame this situation in terms of us, CCW holders, if we were in that situation.

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Absolutely -

My 2 cents - The guy in Dress in Black does not seem to pose a threat - Weird Yes - YouTube Star Maybe - Definitely keeping an eye on him,

The two gents seem to me the aggressors,

I would not have confronted that Man if he did not pose a threat to me - I would have definitely kept a eye on him and create distance -

A camera was the only thing I saw / and I could understand being on alert based on the Ninja look - because its weird -

The missing fact here is what happen that created that confrontation

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my 2 cents…
The person filming this is direct line of fire if guy in black has a gun. :thinking::thinking:

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My take. Stupid is as Stupid doe’s. Wanna be bad a$$???

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Maybe a little background as I am familiar with the area and some of the conversation is hard to hear. Apparently, this guy had been around a gun shop in Jackson, MI for a couple days taunting customers with his camera trying to get some kind of internet-worthy reaction.

In my opinion, the wannabe antifa/jihadist (he was calling the man in red racist and speaking Arabic words, but as you can see at the end of the video and can hear them say that he is not middle-eastern, but white) got more than he expected. He wanted to get a rise out of someone, he wanted to get some guy loosing it. Well he got that. It seemed that it got a bit out of hand to him and he started acting like he had a weapon, but still did not back down. He seemed to get in over his head and realize it and was in bluff mode. He then bugged out. That is where it should have ended IMHO. Granted, no one should have reacted to this guy. He should have been left alone to look stupid. How about that for a viral video? Just a video of the man in black acting stupid, trying to instigate only to see people to ignore him. But the man in red got in trouble when he touched and pushed the guy. Nope, let the guy go. But he pursued and continued to get physical. Bad idea. In my not so expert opinion, he met the guy with disproportionate force. While we dont know what happened during the time between the running away and the videographer catching up with the situation, it certainly looks like assault by the man in red. Whether the guy in black deserved it is irrelevant. On the plus side, searching the news and reaching out to contacts that I have still in the area, there is nothing to suggest that either party was charged with anything.

So, now to the point. Imagine you are in that situation, and like the responsible person that you are, you are carrying your firearm responsibly. As a self-check, how is your control when met by a man getting in your face and spewing all sorts of hateful things? How would you react if you were the man in red and faced with the possibility that the other person in the confrontation has a weapon even if they have not yet produced it? Do you have a different read on the situation? One final note, the location where it starts, the outdoor dining, is a brewery. They have very good food.

Agree with @DavidM58
The missing fact here is what happen that created that confrontation. I truly believe that the people confronting the individual did not want to be videotaped so they made a big deal. As far as trespassing the business has a right not to allow him in if he’s going to be video taping. As a concealed carrier I would mind my business especially if the individual did not pose a threat. There’s no law that says you can’t dress in all black with a mask and video tape. I have stated before that sometimes people blow things out of proportion.

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I’m extremely angered at this video. On many levels.
First law enforcement is NOT coming!
Second, as a CCW holder and armed 24/7. The best thing to do is to create distance.
Third if my “distance” is violated with any form of reasonable detection of force or violence (furtive movements, hand hidden behind back) and any reasonable person in the same situation feels their life is being threatened, STOP the threat. I did not say shoot. However, If I’m still holstered, because at that very moment there’s no visible weapon, and suddenly ninja guy pulls weapon, I’m obviously dead.
So the question in all of this, remains. At what exact point do you save your life, prior to a bullet leaving the barrel or as it leaves the barrel?
Why didn’t the guy in the pink/red shirt just leave the area and let the ninja film?
When we start giving an inch to ninjas, which we have, the more violent they will become, the more in our faces they will become and we will have been disarmed by our own ethics and more of us will be the injured, because we didn’t draw down or pummel the miscreants into the pavement. They are daring good men to do bad things. What’s that saying?, “be careful what you wish for”.
Ninja guy was baiting for the sensationalism of gun owners. Someday he may feel the sensation!
As a whole many people are angered by what they are seeing and yet I have not heard of a single CCW licensed handgun holder having to fire a single shot. That says a lot for our community. On the other side of that coin is hesitation and hesitation gets you killed.
But they are getting to close to the fire! Everyone has a breaking point. The video points out how close we are! Don’t call our bluff.

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Not disagreeing, but to your point, if I show up at Nancy Pelosi’s house like that, with a non visible M4 (I don’t pose a threat because you can’t see the M4) on my back and the misdirection of a camera on her property and I don’t want to leave, is her security detail going to get physical with me, as I inch closer to her front door? I feel we are being played on a very large scale.

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Hi Mr. Man in Black!!!

With that there phone camera it kinda seems like you are looking for someone to interview.

I’m in a hurry and can’t stop, but if you follow me and my buddy here down this alley we can talk to you while we walk

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I love that strategy!

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You are correct, Pelosi’s detail would probably tackle us because it is there job to protect her and they will not get in trouble for it. But as responsibly armed citizens we are not obligated to take action in that situation. My take on it is let it go.

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Agreed, distance is our friend. No point in even trying to de escalate, that was proven by video. As former military, any form of retreat is defeat. Could be pride talking now!

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Glad you caught that on the police response time. As they say, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. The timeline is very clear in this video. The police response time was 15 minutes for an in-city call. In case you are wondering, the police station is literally a half mile from where this took place.

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Without anything, but the video to go by, it appears the guy in the pink shirt and his friend assaulted the man in black. Who cares that he had a video camera and stated that pink shirt is a racist? He was on a public sidewalk, not trespassing. The two that assaulted him should be looking at criminal charges and a civil suit.

I had a similar incident, though without a camera, when a person got right in my face and began screaming at the top of his lungs that I was a killer. This was right after the July 2019 special legislative session. I was with my daughter about a block from the Virginia Capitol. I was non-responsive, and he left. My daughter was visibly upset, and a woman nearby came to comfort my daughter. My daughter asked how I remained so calm. I stated that he showed no visible signs of violent intentions, and there was nothing I could have said that would have ended his rage. I told her if he reacted violently, I would have had a much different response. I was not carrying, but I still had my knives, and a forearm to his neck would have ended it quickly, too.

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This is a form of assault, they seek to traumatize you, or a little kid with you, and hopefully getting you in trouble when you can’t keep your cool. You don’t think that he will be charged with making terroristic threats, do you, by implying he carries a weapon, or is a jihadist of some kind? Enjoy the sacred 1st Amendment!

There was an incident here, years ago. A freak was filming children playing at the Palm Beach Zoo, some parents were fed up, and made a Citizen’s Arrest. You can guess what the cops said: he has a constitutional right to be here and do what he did. Luckily, no one got charged with assault. Could LE legally detain the freak for 48 hrs, while bringing probable cause to search freak’s home computer to the judge? That’s too much to ask, just wishful thinking.

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